Do genuine apostles still exist today?

[Blane]

The KJV only uses the word "apostle" 19 times. Most of those occurances simply involve Paul or Peter writing an epistle and briefly referring to themselves as an apostle. The scriptures seem to have very little to say about the office of apostle. So what exactly is an apostle, according to scripture? What is their function within the body? Do they still exist in the church today? If so, how can we recognize them? How can we know with certainty whether or not apostles still walk among us?

Personally, I believe apostles still exist, but they are very rare. Probably much rarer than genuine prophets. I also believe that false prophets and false apostles far outnumber those who are God-called.

What are your thoughts on this subject? Please share them. I pray that God will use this thread to open our understanding regarding the mysterious office of apostle.

blessings,

Blane

12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

² I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
³ And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
⁴ How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
⁵ Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
⁶ For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
⁷ And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
⁸ For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
⁹ And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
¹⁰ Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
¹¹ I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
¹² Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

[Lou Newton]

The KJV only uses the word "apostle" 19 times. Most of those occurances simply involve Paul or Peter writing an epistle and briefly referring to themselves as an apostle. The scriptures seem to have very little to say about the office of apostle. So what exactly is an apostle, according to scripture? What is their function within the body? Do they still exist in the church today? If so, how can we recognize them? How can we know with certainty whether or not apostles still walk among us?

Personally, I believe apostles still exist, but they are very rare. Probably much rarer than genuine prophets. I also believe that false prophets and false apostles far outnumber those who are God-called.

What are your thoughts on this subject? Please share them. I pray that God will use this thread to open our understanding regarding the mysterious office of apostle.

blessings,

Blane

An apostle is someone that God has called to be a teacher, then a pastor, then an evangelist, and a prophet. There are only four ministries, but an apostle has all four.

Because of this, he will see things that others do not see. He has been shown many "secret" things of God.

There are four gospels, and four beasts, and four ministries.

There are many false apostles, but few true apostles that are called of God. One sign of a false apostle, is that he does not know what an apostle is. He thinks that it is a rank and that it puts him in charge. An apostle is also a prophet and if he is not, he is not an apostle. Many false apostles admit that they are not prophets, and go around with another man that claims he is a prophet.

We can see that Paul was a teacher.

Paul was a pastor.

Paul was an evangelist.

Paul was a prophet.

2 Cor 12:12
12 The things that mark an apostle--signs, wonders and miracles--were done among you with great perseverance.

1 Cor 4
Apostles of Christ
1 So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. 2 Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 6 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? 8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have become kings--and that without us! How I wish that you really had become kings so that we might be kings with you! 9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men. 10 We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! 11 To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. 12 We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; 13 when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.

2 Cor 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God. 5 For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. 8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. 9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us, 11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.

2 Cor 4

Treasures in Jars of Clay
1 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this all-surpassing power is from God and not from us. 8 We are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed; perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed. 10 We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. 11 For we who are alive are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that his life may be revealed in our mortal body. 12 So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you. 13 It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak, 14 because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence. 15 All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is reaching more and more people may cause thanksgiving to overflow to the glory of God. 16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day. 17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all. 18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.

If a man calls himself Apostle ______ . He is not an apostle. He will simply say he is ______ called to be an apostle. Or simply that he is ______, and give his name. An apostle is NOT a title, but a calling and a job.

Grace to you
Lou Newton

[Blane]

An apostle is someone that God has called to be a teacher, then a pastor, then an evangelist, and a prophet. There are only four ministries, but an apostle has all four.

Because of this, he will see things that others do not see. He has been shown many "secret" things of God.

There are four gospels, and four beasts, and four ministries.

There are many false apostles, but few true apostles that are called of God. One sign of a false apostle, is that he does not know what an apostle is. He thinks that it is a rank and that it puts him in charge. An apostle is also a prophet and if he is not, he is not an apostle. Many false apostles admit that they are not prophets, and go around with another man that claims he is a prophet.

We can see that Paul was a teacher.

Paul was a pastor.

Paul was an evangelist.

Paul was a prophet.


If a man calls himself Apostle ______ . He is not an apostle. He will simply say he is ______ called to be an apostle. Or simply that he is ______, and give his name. An apostle is NOT a title, but a calling and a job.

Grace to you
Lou Newton

Thanks for your post, Lou. Could you elaborate on the part about scripture only acknowledging four ministries? What about believers who are in helps ministries? That is, ministries which seek out the homeless and downtroden, ministering to their physical needs, and also sharing the Gospel with them? Would you classify them as evangelists? What if someone ministers to ones physical needs but doesn't share the Gospel? Jesus comended the Good Samaritan in scripture for ministering to the man who had been robbed and left to die. But Jesus was comending him for being a good neighbor, so maybe that's a whole different category of ministry? Like orphanages, homeless shelters, drug rehabilitation clinics?

How would you catagorize the ministry of John the Baptist? Prophet only? Apostle?

How about those who refer to their God assigned ministry as watchmen? Where do they fit in? Are they prophets? If so, why do they use the term "watchmen" instead of "prophet?" I realize they point to the verse in the OT that speaks of God setting a watchman on the wall. But why the differentiation between watchman and prophet? Is there a notable difference that we can discern within the scriptures?

Blane

[Lou Newton]

Thanks for your post, Lou. Could you elaborate on the part about scripture only acknowledging four ministries? What about believers who are in helps ministries? That is, ministries which seek out the homeless and downtroden, ministering to their physical needs, and also sharing the Gospel with them? Would you classify them as evangelists? What if someone ministers to ones physical needs but doesn't share the Gospel? Jesus comended the Good Samaritan in scripture for ministering to the man who had been robbed and left to die. But Jesus was comending him for being a good neighbor, so maybe that's a whole different category of ministry? Like orphanages, homeless shelters, drug rehabilitation clinics?

How would you catagorize the ministry of John the Baptist? Prophet only? Apostle?

How about those who refer to their God assigned ministry as watchmen? Where do they fit in? Are they prophets? If so, why do they use the term "watchmen" instead of "prophet?" I realize they point to the verse in the OT that speaks of God setting a watchman on the wall. But why the differentiation between watchman and prophet? Is there a notable difference that we can discern within the scriptures?

Blane

Hi Blane,

Eph 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
1 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." 9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions ? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

I was speaking only of this list and pointing out that are really four here, because the apostle is the combination of the other four.

I would look at this list as list of offices that The Lord appoints men to.

But there are also gifts and other lists.

We are all to teach others, especially our own children. But that does not mean we are all called to the office of teacher.

We are all to guard the sheep, especially our own family, but we are not all called to the office of pastor.

We are all to gather people unto the Lord, especially our own children, but that does not mean that all are called to the office of evangelist.

We are all to desire the gift of prophecy, but not all are called to the office of prophet.

Well John the Baptist was certainly a prophet in the Spirit of Elijah; but we are not given any writings of his and very little of his preaching.

But he did have a group of disciples which would indicate that he may be an apostle.

Men that are called to be prophets only, tend to be spend a lot of time alone to hear from the Lord. John did this and that may have ben his maturing as a prophet.

But when he had disciples that would tend to make me think he was then an apostle.

We can all think on this and maybe The Lord will add more.

The watchmen is not listed in the NT. But if a watchman is not a prophet, then what is he.

A prophet is a seerer, who sees things that others do not see. He sees over the normal horizon. So why post a watchman that is not a seerer. There is no point in standing on the wall if another can see farther standing on the ground. But a seerer standing on the wall would make sense.

It seems to me that many in the church believe that prophets do not exist today. So it may simply be a term that was chosen to get less criticism than calling oneself a prophet.

I only knew of one man who called himself "the watchman". He was simply a false prophet because he constantly made prophecies that did not come to past. But the fact that he allowed others close to him refer to him as THE Watchman tells us everything we need to know. That alone is great error. There is but one The Watchman and that is The Lord Jesus.

Can you imagine Paul ever writing, The Apostle says ...................... - God forbid that he would do any such thing.

But I seen it written; The Watchman said .................................

He claimed the Lord gave him a dream that Honolulu was going to be nuked and 1,100,000 people were going to die. My daughter and my grandchildren all moved there shortly after he made that claim and I never lost one minutes sleep over the fact that they lived in the very middle of Pearl Harbor on Ford Island. I can not imagine that The Lord would not tell me to warn them if that dream was from the Lord. They live in Boardman, Ohio now.

Grace to you
Lou Newton