Why did Jesus Quote Psalm 22, and what Death did Jesus Taste?

[Travis]

Reading through two of Lou's article, I was left with a couple of questions:

http://www.fortressoftruth.com/forums/showthread.php?6-Did-Jesus-Raise-Himself-from-the-Dead

http://www.fortressoftruth.com/forums/showthread.php?20-Death-are-there-different-kinds-of-death

These are probably deserving of two different threads, but for the time being I want to keep them together, because I think they relate in some way.

First, Why did Jesus say, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Which is a direct quote from Psalm 22.

Psalm 22 KJV
1 [[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring? ...

6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. 7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], ...

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong [bulls] of Bashan have beset me round. 13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. ... 16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

To what degree did God forsake Jesus while he was on the cross? To be spiritually dead, is to have the Holy Spirit removed from dwelling in you, as what happened to Adam and Eve in the garden. Yet, for God to totally forsake Christ, which would be the Holy Spirit leaving Jesus on Cross, would mean Jesus ceased from being God, or one with God, for some amount of time. If that happened... well... I imagine every molecule in the whole universe would have imploded and exploded simultaneously. I can't fathom that happened, nor that it is possible, unless I am missing something that others can see. So, to what extent did God forsake the Son of Man, the Son of God, on the cross at Calvary. It seems to me, that whenever Jesus poses a question, and even more so when he makes a direct allusion to the scriptures (Pre NT scriptures obviously), that there is something really important there for us. For him to do both at the same time really jumps out at me. My God, My God, why have you forsaken Him?

The second of my questions is similar:

Hebrews 2:9-11 KJV
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

What death did Jesus taste for us on the cross? How far does Death's grip go, and how much of it did Jesus taste?


I think the answers to these questions are actually really simple though, as I am putting together this thread they are seemingly more clear to me than when I started. But I am not going to share any more than this for now, because that would ruin all the fun.

Travis

[Lou Newton]

Please comment

Reading through two of Lou's article, I was left with a couple of questions:

http://www.fortressoftruth.com/forums/showthread.php?6-Did-Jesus-Raise-Himself-from-the-Dead

http://www.fortressoftruth.com/forums/showthread.php?20-Death-are-there-different-kinds-of-death

These are probably deserving of two different threads, but for the time being I want to keep them together, because I think they relate in some way.

First, Why did Jesus say, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Which is a direct quote from Psalm 22.

Psalm 22 KJV
1 [[To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David.]] My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring? ...

6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. 7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], ...

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong [bulls] of Bashan have beset me round. 13 They gaped upon me [with] their mouths, [as] a ravening and a roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. ... 16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

To what degree did God forsake Jesus while he was on the cross? To be spiritually dead, is to have the Holy Spirit removed from dwelling in you, as what happened to Adam and Eve in the garden. Yet, for God to totally forsake Christ, which would be the Holy Spirit leaving Jesus on Cross, would mean Jesus ceased from being God, or one with God, for some amount of time. If that happened... well... I imagine every molecule in the whole universe would have imploded and exploded simultaneously. I can't fathom that happened, nor that it is possible, unless I am missing something that others can see. So, to what extent did God forsake the Son of Man, the Son of God, on the cross at Calvary. It seems to me, that whenever Jesus poses a question, and even more so when he makes a direct allusion to the scriptures (Pre NT scriptures obviously), that there is something really important there for us. For him to do both at the same time really jumps out at me. My God, My God, why have you forsaken Him?

The second of my questions is similar:

Hebrews 2:9-11 KJV
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified [are] all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

What death did Jesus taste for us on the cross? How far does Death's grip go, and how much of it did Jesus taste?


I think the answers to these questions are actually really simple though, as I am putting together this thread they are seemingly more clear to me than when I started. But I am not going to share any more than this for now, because that would ruin all the fun.

Travis

Hi Travis, these are very good questions you have posted here.

These are very good questions that Travis has posed here. Please comment on his post. You may have another question or questions that comes to mind. Some scripture may come to mind, but you may not understand it completely. Or how about just saying hi to Travis.

We are meeting here on this forum. When you go into a meeting it is nice to say hi to those in the room.

Also you could pray for The Lord to provide answers to these questions. Please get involved in some way.

BUT we do not want to chase those who just read off of the site. Everyone is welcome to read.

Grace to you,

Lou Newton
Bond servant of Jesus

[AGTG]

Just something I came across while pondering Jesus' death. Jesus is the Apostle and High Priest of our faith, right?

What could these scriptures imply then?

Numbers 35

25 And the congregation shall rescue the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to his city of refuge to which he had fled, and he shall live in it until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil. 26 But if the manslayer shall at any time go beyond the boundaries of his city of refuge to which he fled, 27 and the avenger of blood finds him outside the boundaries of his city of refuge, and the avenger of blood kills the manslayer, he shall not be guilty of blood. 28 For he must remain in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest, but after the death of the high priest the manslayer may return to the land of his possession. 29 And these things shall be for a statute and rule for you throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

Joshua 20

1 Then the LORD said to Joshua, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, ‘Appoint the cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, 3 that the manslayer who strikes any person without intent or unknowingly may flee there. They shall be for you a refuge from the avenger of blood. 4 He shall flee to one of these cities and shall stand at the entrance of the gate of the city and explain his case to the elders of that city. Then they shall take him into the city and give him a place, and he shall remain with them. 5 And if the avenger of blood pursues him, they shall not give up the manslayer into his hand, because he struck his neighbor unknowingly, and did not hate him in the past. 6 And he shall remain in that city until he has stood before the congregation for judgment, until the death of him who is high priest at the time. Then the manslayer may return to his own town and his own home, to the town from which he fled.’”

[Lou Newton]

Jesus our High Priest had to die for us to be forgiven

Just something I came across while pondering Jesus' death. Jesus is the Apostle and High Priest of our faith, right?

What could these scriptures imply then?

Numbers 35

25 And the congregation shall rescue the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to his city of refuge to which he had fled, and he shall live in it until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil. 26 But if the manslayer shall at any time go beyond the boundaries of his city of refuge to which he fled, 27 and the avenger of blood finds him outside the boundaries of his city of refuge, and the avenger of blood kills the manslayer, he shall not be guilty of blood. 28 For he must remain in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest, but after the death of the high priest the manslayer may return to the land of his possession. 29 And these things shall be for a statute and rule for you throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

Joshua 20

1 Then the LORD said to Joshua, 2 “Say to the people of Israel, ‘Appoint the cities of refuge, of which I spoke to you through Moses, 3 that the manslayer who strikes any person without intent or unknowingly may flee there. They shall be for you a refuge from the avenger of blood. 4 He shall flee to one of these cities and shall stand at the entrance of the gate of the city and explain his case to the elders of that city. Then they shall take him into the city and give him a place, and he shall remain with them. 5 And if the avenger of blood pursues him, they shall not give up the manslayer into his hand, because he struck his neighbor unknowingly, and did not hate him in the past. 6 And he shall remain in that city until he has stood before the congregation for judgment, until the death of him who is high priest at the time. Then the manslayer may return to his own town and his own home, to the town from which he fled.’”

Hi Jeff,

Well these scriptures certainly point out that Jesus, who is our High Priest, had to die before we could be forgiven and not be pursued by the avenger ( Satan) anymore. It is only then that we can return to the land of our Father, or of our birth, our home (heaven).

Grace to you,

Lou Newton
Bond servant of Jesus

[Blane]

First, Why did Jesus say, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” Which is a direct quote from Psalm 22.

Hi Travis,

When Jesus bore our sin in his body on the tree, God the Father laid upon him the full penalty for all of our sin and iniquity. Jesus apparently suffered the full fury of His Father's anger for the sin he bore on our behalf. I cannot begin to fathom what that must have felt like to Jesus, but I suspect it's why he sweated great drops of blood in the Garden the night before his crucifixion. Surely only an infinite person (Jesus Christ) could even begin to bear the infinite penalty for the sin of the world. Some theologians have suggested that Jesus felt abandoned by God the Father because God could not look upon the sin that was laid upon Christ. These people reason that because God is holy, He cannot associate himself with sin. That theory doesn't seem quite right to me, but I'll throw it out there for the sake of discussion. Maybe someone can shoot some holes in it and prove from the scriptures what is true regarding your Psalm 22 quote above.

Peace,

Blane

[Lou Newton]

Hi Travis,

When Jesus bore our sin in his body on the tree, God the Father laid upon him the full penalty for all of our sin and iniquity. Jesus apparently suffered the full fury of His Father's anger for the sin he bore on our behalf. I cannot begin to fathom what that must have felt like to Jesus, but I suspect it's why he sweated great drops of blood in the Garden the night before his crucifixion. Surely only an infinite person (Jesus Christ) could even begin to bear the infinite penalty for the sin of the world. Some theologians have suggested that Jesus felt abandoned by God the Father because God could not look upon the sin that was laid upon Christ. These people reason that because God is holy, He cannot associate himself with sin. That theory doesn't seem quite right to me, but I'll throw it out there for the sake of discussion. Maybe someone can shoot some holes in it and prove from the scriptures what is true regarding your Psalm 22 quote above.

Peace,

Blane

These questions may be the greatest mysteries of the Kingdom of God.

Lou