Romans 8

[Blane]

Looking for greater understanding and clarity regarding the 8th Chapter of Romans. Please feel free to comment on any verse in this glorious chapter of scripture. I have particular interest regarding the verses highlighted in blue, but please feel free to comment on any verse.

Thanks,

Blane



Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

² For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

⁴ That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
⁵ For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
⁶ For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
⁷ Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
⁸ So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
⁹ But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
¹⁰ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
¹¹ But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
¹² Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
¹³ For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

¹⁴ For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
¹⁵ For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
¹⁶ The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
¹⁷ And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
¹⁸ For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
¹⁹ For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
²⁰ For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
²¹ Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
²² For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
²³ And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
²⁴ For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
²⁵ But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
²⁶ Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
²⁷ And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
²⁸ And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
²⁹ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
³¹ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
³² He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
³³ Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

³⁴ Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
³⁵ Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
³⁶ As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
³⁷ Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
³⁸ For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
³⁹ Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[Travis]

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)[/B]

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation

Romans 5:16
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offenses unto justification.

Adam's fall was sufficient to condemn every single one of his offspring from thence forward to death. For Adam died spiritually, and could only give birth to the spiritually dead from that point on.

Those who are in Christ Jesus walk after the Spirit, those who are not in Christ Jesus walk after the flesh. So this begs the question, what does it mean to walk after after the Spirit?

Grace to you,

Travis

[Lou Newton]

No condemnation

Romans 5:16
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offenses unto justification.

Adam's fall was sufficient to condemn every single one of his offspring from thence forward to death. For Adam died spiritually, and could only give birth to the spiritually dead from that point on.

Those who are in Christ Jesus walk after the Spirit, those who are not in Christ Jesus walk after the flesh. So this begs the question, what does it mean to walk after after the Spirit?

Grace to you,

Travis

Let start by talking about a person who has asked Jesus to take their life and hold it in His hand.

Now Jesus created everything that exists, and when He said, Let there be light and there was light.

When The Holy Spirit of Jesus enters your spirit, who do you think will win the battle for your soul, your flesh or The Lord Jesus Christ. Talk about a silly question !

If one did not truly give their life to Christ, they are still in trouble.

But if one gave their life to Christ, they are saved, are being saved and will be saved. Jesus can be trusted to finish their salvation.

The Lord Jesus holds them in His hand, and NO ONE can remove them from His hand.

Now read the same passage again while thinking of this truth that you already knew.

Lou Newton

[Lou Newton]

Read this version of Romans 8. Please humor me. This version teaches we are saved by grace like no other.

Romans 8 Living Bible (TLB)

8 So there is now no condemnation awaiting those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 For the power of the life-giving Spirit—and this power is mine through Christ Jesus—has freed me from the vicious circle of sin and death. 3 We aren’t saved from sin’s grasp by knowing the commandments of God because we can’t and don’t keep them, but God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours—except that ours are sinful—and destroyed sin’s control over us by giving himself as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 So now we can obey God’s laws if we follow after the Holy Spirit and no longer obey the old evil nature within us.

5 Those who let themselves be controlled by their lower natures live only to please themselves, but those who follow after the Holy Spirit find themselves doing those things that please God. 6 Following after the Holy Spirit leads to life and peace, but following after the old nature leads to death 7 because the old sinful nature within us is against God. It never did obey God’s laws and it never will. 8 That’s why those who are still under the control of their old sinful selves, bent on following their old evil desires, can never please God.

9 But you are not like that. You are controlled by your new nature if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that if anyone doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ living in him, he is not a Christian at all.) 10 Yet, even though Christ lives within you, your body will die because of sin; but your spirit will live, for Christ has pardoned it. 11 And if the Spirit of God, who raised up Jesus from the dead, lives in you, he will make your dying bodies live again after you die, by means of this same Holy Spirit living within you.

12 So, dear brothers, you have no obligations whatever to your old sinful nature to do what it begs you to do. 13 For if you keep on following it you are lost and will perish, but if through the power of the Holy Spirit you crush it and its evil deeds, you shall live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

15 And so we should not be like cringing, fearful slaves, but we should behave like God’s very own children, adopted into the bosom of his family, and calling to him, “Father, Father.” 16 For his Holy Spirit speaks to us deep in our hearts and tells us that we really are God’s children. 17 And since we are his children, we will share his treasures—for all God gives to his Son Jesus is now ours too. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

18 Yet what we suffer now is nothing compared to the glory he will give us later. 19 For all creation is waiting patiently and hopefully for that future day[b] when God will resurrect his children. 20-21 For on that day thorns and thistles, sin, death, and decay[c]—the things that overcame the world against its will at God’s command—will all disappear, and the world around us will share in the glorious freedom from sin which God’s children enjoy.

22 For we know that even the things of nature, like animals and plants, suffer in sickness and death as they await this great event.[d] 23 And even we Christians, although we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, also groan to be released from pain and suffering. We, too, wait anxiously for that day when God will give us our full rights as his children, including the new bodies he has promised us—bodies that will never be sick again and will never die.

24 We are saved by trusting. And trusting means looking forward to getting something we don’t yet have—for a man who already has something doesn’t need to hope and trust that he will get it. 25 But if we must keep trusting God for something that hasn’t happened yet, it teaches us to wait patiently and confidently.

26 And in the same way—by our faith[e]—the Holy Spirit helps us with our daily problems and in our praying. For we don’t even know what we should pray for nor how to pray as we should, but the Holy Spirit prays for us with such feeling that it cannot be expressed in words. 27 And the Father who knows all hearts knows, of course, what the Spirit is saying as he pleads for us in harmony with God’s own will. 28 And we know that all that happens to us is working for our good if we love God and are fitting into his plans.

29 For from the very beginning God decided that those who came to him—and all along he knew who would—should become like his Son, so that his Son would be the First, with many brothers. 30 And having chosen us, he called us to come to him; and when we came, he declared us “not guilty,” filled us with Christ’s goodness, gave us right standing with himself, and promised us his glory.

31 What can we ever say to such wonderful things as these? If God is on our side, who can ever be against us? 32 Since he did not spare even his own Son for us but gave him up for us all, won’t he also surely give us everything else?

33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? Will God? No! He is the one who has forgiven us and given us right standing with himself.

34 Who then will condemn us? Will Christ? No! For he is the one who died for us and came back to life again for us and is sitting at the place of highest honor next to God, pleading for us there in heaven.

35 Who then can ever keep Christ’s love from us? When we have trouble or calamity, when we are hunted down or destroyed, is it because he doesn’t love us anymore? And if we are hungry or penniless or in danger or threatened with death, has God deserted us?

36 No, for the Scriptures tell us that for his sake we must be ready to face death at every moment of the day—we are like sheep awaiting slaughter; 37 but despite all this, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ who loved us enough to die for us. 38 For I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from his love. Death can’t, and life can’t. The angels won’t, and all the powers of hell itself cannot keep God’s love away. Our fears for today, our worries about tomorrow, 39 or where we are—high above the sky, or in the deepest ocean—nothing will ever be able to separate us from the love of God demonstrated by our Lord Jesus Christ when he died for us.

[Baruch]

No condemnation

Romans 5:16
And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offenses unto justification.

Adam's fall was sufficient to condemn every single one of his offspring from thence forward to death. For Adam died spiritually, and could only give birth to the spiritually dead from that point on.

Those who are in Christ Jesus walk after the Spirit, those who are not in Christ Jesus walk after the flesh. So this begs the question, what does it mean to walk after after the Spirit?

Grace to you,

Travis

To walk after: to follow, to be led by. The Spirit: some infer the Holy Spirit (which seems a bit nebulous); others the Spirit which is the word of God (from Eph 6:17, which seems a bit more concrete).

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

<-- flesh --(me)-- Spirit -->

[Lou Newton]

To walk after: to follow, to be led by. The Spirit: some infer the Holy Spirit (which seems a bit nebulous); others the Spirit which is the word of God (from Eph 6:17, which seems a bit more concrete).

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

<-- flesh --(me)-- Spirit -->

Hi Baruch,

You mention this scripture in Eph 6

16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests

Now the same scriptures tell us who The Word of God is, a person, or it is the words that He speaks.

Paper and ink can not be spirit. The Spirit of God can speak to us when we read these words on paper. Then it is The Word of God. BUT when many read these words on paper, it is NOT the word of God.

Strong evidence of this, is how some says these words mean an entirely opposite meaning than others when they read them.

Many Pharisees read these words to themselves, just as Jesus told them that they prayed to themselves instead of praying to God.

No book can contain the Spirit of God. But God can certainly reveal Himself in the Spirit when someone reads the scriptures or prays to Him.

No one can force God to speak to them just because they pick up His Book while they mock the words that God speaks in the same book.

I am reminded of a TV preacher that held up the Bible while he said, I preach nothing but the word of God. It was not much later that he showed very strong evidence that he did not even know God by preaching total heresy.

The Book of paper and ink has absolutely no power of it's own. It is only The Author of the Book that has power to change lives.

We are not to look to the creation, and The Book is part of the creation. We are to look to the Creator.

Nebulous

neb·u·lous

/ˈnebyələs/

adjective

adjective: nebulous

in the form of a cloud or haze; hazy.

"a giant nebulous glow"

synonyms: indistinct, indefinite, unclear, vague, hazy, cloudy, fuzzy, misty, blurred, blurry, foggy; More

faint, shadowy, obscure, formless, amorphous

"the figure was nebulous"

antonyms: clear
•
(of a concept or idea) unclear, vague, or ill-defined.

"nebulous concepts like quality of life"

synonyms: vague, ill-defined, unclear, hazy, uncertain, indefinite, indeterminate, imprecise, unformed, muddled, confused, ambiguous

"nebulous ideas"

The Holy Spirit is not nebulous. He is always the same and never changes. He never contradicts Himself. He can not lie.

I have never had The Holy Spirit speak to me in a nebulous way. I have understood things that he spoke to me that I did not understand before he spoke.

The Holy Scriptures can be nebulous. How many interpretations do men have from just one passage, let alone the whole book. The interpretations of men are simply nebulous.

The Holy Spirit is concrete. He told Abraham the same exact things that he has told you and me.

Now, if you say that men's claim of hearing from The Holy Spirit is NEBULOUS, then I will agree with that.

But so are men's interpretations of the holy Scriptures.

God is NOT nebulous, but men are certainly nebulous.

So The Book is clear, IF The Holy Spirit speaks The Word of God to us.

The Holy Spirit is clear if He speaks to us without the book.

After all it is only through The Holy Spirit speaking to men that wrote those words down that made the book.

If The Holy Spirit speaking to men was nebulous, then that would make the book nebulous, because that is how we got the book.

If God speaks to us through the Book or without the Book, we can depend on it being true.

If men speak while reading The Book, or while claiming to be speaking the words of The Holy Spirit, they are not true.

This is why it is so important to spend time with The Lord Jesus and learn to recognize Him when He speaks to us through the Book or without the book.

What do you think about this ?

Grace to you
Lou Newton

[Baruch]

Romans 8 King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

² For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

⁴ That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hi, Blane,

Here's a thought.

Verse 2 and 3 are like one of those "natural first, then spiritual" corollaries?

In verse 3, the justice of the law demands innocent blood. Jesus satisfied the demand for justice in our stead, carried out in the natural, where the law was operating...

That, in verse 4, the righteousness of the law could be fulfilled in the spiritual for those that turn away from the flesh to follow after the Spirit (Spirit of life in Jesus Christ).

In verse 1, then the law of the Spirit of life could do in the spirit what the law could not do in the natural.

I think I may be missing some glue here.

[Travis]

To walk after: to follow, to be led by. The Spirit: some infer the Holy Spirit (which seems a bit nebulous); others the Spirit which is the word of God (from Eph 6:17, which seems a bit more concrete).

Well, I think the Spirit is God, however one wants to look at that.

Now, on the topic of being led by the Spirit, I don't think anyone has the option of sitting down. In this scenario, it seems walking is mandatory, seeing as we are stuck in this thing called time. There are two paths, and two gates. Everyone who ever lived will enter into one or the other gates and walk one or the other paths. So it makes sense to me that we would have two things to walk after as well. If we walk after the flesh, it is because we are children of the Devil. If we walk after the Spirit it is because we are children of the Father.

Our will's are important, but I do not think that they ultimately determine, at any given moment, who we are walking after. It seems that it is whoever we belong to that we are walking after. I don't think it's possible to just switch back and forth between masters at will, fluctuating between the two; It seems to me, we either belong to one or the other. Ultimately though, there is but one Master, and he will judge the living and the dead once he has conquered.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

<-- flesh --(me)-- Spirit -->

You make a good point bringing up Galatians 5:17 brother. Those that walk after the Spirit are still stuck in the flesh. They are not walking after the flesh, but their flesh still hinders them and causes them to not be able to do what their spirit wants to do.

Jesus paid the price for us with his blood though. And since he rose from the dead, and thus he will one day give us glorified bodies like his, we will no longer be stuck in these sinful fleshly bodies.

Can't wait for that day,

Grace to you,

Travis