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  • Is this verse talking about Jesus?

    Any thoughts on the meaning of this verse? It's found in Genesis 22.


    That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;



    My first thought was to wonder exactly what is meant by the term, "thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;" Is the term "gate" here referring to something in the spirit realm? Or does it refer to physical gates, i.e., trade routes, points of entry, etc.

    Also, is this a promise that applies to all of Abraham's spiritual decendants? Or is the term "seed" speaking specifically about The Lord Jesus Christ?

    What are your thoughts?

    Blane

  • #2
    Originally posted by Blane View Post
    Any thoughts on the meaning of this verse? It's found in Genesis 22.


    That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;



    My first thought was to wonder exactly what is meant by the term, "thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;" Is the term "gate" here referring to something in the spirit realm? Or does it refer to physical gates, i.e., trade routes, points of entry, etc.

    Also, is this a promise that applies to all of Abraham's spiritual decendants? Or is the term "seed" speaking specifically about The Lord Jesus Christ?

    What are your thoughts?

    Blane
    Here is the whole chapter in context:


    Genesis 22 New International Version (NIV)

    Abraham Tested

    22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
    “Here I am,” he replied.
    2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
    3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and loaded his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”
    6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac,and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
    “Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
    “The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”
    8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.
    9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the Lord called out to him from heaven,“Abraham! Abraham!”
    “Here I am,” he replied.
    12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
    13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The Lord Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the Lord it will be provided.”
    15The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”
    19 Then Abraham returned to his servants, and they set off together for Beersheba. And Abraham stayed in Beersheba.
    Lou Newton

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Lou. I never considered the magnitude of all those references to the angel of the Lord in this passage before. They do make me go Hmmmm when I read them with special emphasis on the parts you have highlighted. I'll take a look at this passage again later today in five or six other translations and see how those segments read.




      On a different subject, the 8th verse in Gen 22 is most thought provoking when considered in the KJV translation...


      8
      And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.


      As if to say, "God will provide Himself to be the lamb that is sacrificed." An awe inspiring glimpse of Calvary when considered from that perspective.

      Blane

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Blane View Post
        Thanks Lou. I never considered the magnitude of all those references to the angel of the Lord in this passage before. They do make me go Hmmmm when I read them with special emphasis on the parts you have highlighted. I'll take a look at this passage again later today in five or six other translations and see how those segments read.




        On a different subject, the 8th verse in Gen 22 is most thought provoking when considered in the KJV translation...


        8
        And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.


        As if to say, "God will provide Himself to be the lamb that is sacrificed." An awe inspiring glimpse of Calvary when considered from that perspective.

        Blane
        Amen, the whole chapter also reveals the fact that God Himself would come down from heaven and be a sacrifice for our sins; along with the rest of the Bible.

        Lou

        Comment


        • #5
          I find that we should consider the following to interpret this passage or any other passage:

          1 - we should use The Holy Scriptures themselves to interpret The Holy Scriptures and NOT the doctrines and traditions of men for that purpose. JESUS continually warned us not to follow the traditions of men.

          2 - we should consider that we have an enemy who is continually trying to deceive us.

          3 - we should consider what method Satan has shown to use.

          4 - He could not tell Adam that God did not exist, for Adam walked and talked with God. So Satan went to Eve and told her that God did not really personally care for them. But only wanted them to follow His laws.

          But The Lord had already shown that was NOT true. For The Lord HIMSELF came walking in the garden to walk and talk with Adam. He did NOT send an angel, or a prophet, but he came to Adam HIMSELF.

          This was the stumbling block for the Pharisees. They would not consider that God Himself came down from heaven to save them.

          Our ability to hear from God depends on our willingness to trust in Him to reveal Himself to us.

          Everyone that sought The Lord, for Him, to reveal The Truth to them were saved.

          Everyone that trusted in there own preconceived ideas, their interpretations of scripture, or the doctrines and traditions of their fathers, their group, or of their own, were lost.

          Comment


          • #6
            JOHN 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

            35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
            This saying, "Behold the Lamb of God" must have shocked everyone within hearing. They all knew what he meant by the lamb - the lamb every household lived with for many days before Passover so they could bond with it before sacrificing it and spreading its blood on their doorposts in rememberance of how the angel of death passed over them in Egypt.

            Exodus 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4 and if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 and ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
            Indeed, the LORD provided HIMSELF a sacrifice
            You know not what you do because you know not who He is.
            - Paul Washer
            Satan is the angel of knowledge and he does not waste his time on anything for no reason.
            - Lou Newton

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jules View Post
              This saying, "Behold the Lamb of God" must have shocked everyone within hearing. They all knew what he meant by the lamb - the lamb every household lived with for many days before Passover so they could bond with it before sacrificing it and spreading its blood on their doorposts in rememberance of how the angel of death passed over them in Egypt.



              Indeed, the LORD provided HIMSELF a sacrifice
              Fantastic post Julie. One could and should ponder those scriptures by reading them prayerfully many times. There is a lot there for anyone who will do so.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Blane View Post
                Any thoughts on the meaning of this verse? It's found in Genesis 22.


                That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;



                My first thought was to wonder exactly what is meant by the term, "thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;" Is the term "gate" here referring to something in the spirit realm? Or does it refer to physical gates, i.e., trade routes, points of entry, etc.

                Also, is this a promise that applies to all of Abraham's spiritual decendants? Or is the term "seed" speaking specifically about The Lord Jesus Christ?

                What are your thoughts?

                Blane
                Yes, this verse is speaking about Jesus.

                He is the seed of Abraham and Adam.

                Satan is the enemy of Jesus.

                Jesus possesses the gate of Satan. Satan keeps everyone from salvation. He is the accuser and accuses everyone of their sin to God. But Jesus is the gate now for anyone who trusts Him to save them. Jesus simply possesses that Gate, and in fact is now the Gate Himself.

                Jesus has paid the price for our sin and so it is entirely just for God to forgive us for our sins.

                Satan had thought he had won, because everyone had sinned. So he saw that everyone was lost. He saw no way for them to be saved from their sin since they could not pay for their sin. All he had to do was tempt everyone to sin and he found that a very easy task.

                The thought never occurred to Satan that God Himself would sacrifice Himself for our sins. It was so against Satan's nature to do something like that, so it never occurred to him. Even though God wrote what He was going to do in parables for anyone to see.

                God hides the truth from those who do not humble themselves before Him and reveals the truth to those who do so.

                Lou Newton

                Comment


                • #9
                  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

                  I had another thought concerning this verse. Not only is Jesus the Seed of Abraham; He also legally claimed victory over sin, death, satan, and hades at Calvary. Jesus truly did fulfill this prophecy. He truly does possess the gate of his enemies. Jesus holds the keys of death and hell. Death no longer has any power over him.

                  Blane

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Blane View Post



                    I had another thought concerning this verse. Not only is Jesus the Seed of Abraham; He also legally claimed victory over sin, death, satan, and hades at Calvary. Jesus truly did fulfill this prophecy. He truly does possess the gate of his enemies. Jesus holds the keys of death and hell. Death no longer has any power over him.

                    Blane
                    Very good post Blane. Outstanding !

                    Amen, that is what I was trying to say in post # 8.

                    There are three seeds that God speaks of here. They are NOT all the same seed. Though Jesus is included in all three seeds.

                    1 - The seed that will be multiplied as the sand which is upon the sea shore - this is all those born of Abraham's natural seed in his lions ( I kept this misspelling for it is humorous, but it should be loins, not lions). This would include all of his descendants.

                    2 - The seed that will be multiplied as the stars in the heavens are all those who have the same faith as Abraham. Or all those who trust God to save them. Of course Isaac is in group 1 and group 2. Most of Abraham's natural descendants will never enter heaven, but will be blessed with earthly blessings. And many that are part of this spiritual seed are NOT of his natural descendants.

                    3 - The seed that will possess the gates of his enemies is Jesus. Of course Jesus is included in all three groups. Jesus was a natural descendant, as far as his human body goes, of Abraham. Jesus, the man, trusted only in God. Jesus is the only one who possesses the gates of all Abraham's enemies.

                    Although even the seed that are in group one are blessed to possess the gates of their earthly enemies, so to speak. They do NOT possess the gates of our true enemies.

                    For we we fight NOT against flesh and blood:

                    Eph 6
                    12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

                    We have three enemies:

                    Sin, death, and Satan

                    No mere man has, or can, conquer any of these, except The Lord Jesus Christ.

                    The Revelation 6
                    The Seals

                    1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!"
                    2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

                    Jesus was The Rider of the white horse. He was bent on conquest. He conquered Sin, death and Satan. No one else has conquered anything of any significance. For anything anyone other than Jesus has conquered is only temporal and will fade away.

                    Everything Jesus conquered is conquered in eternity.

                    But the price was very high, it cost Jesus everything. It cost Him all of His body and blood.





                    Lou Newton

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