Free Will

[Travis]

The term "free will" is never used in the scriptures given to us by God.

Nonetheless, this term is used quite often in regards to doctrine and explaining things contained in the bible. The bible certainly talks about us using our will, and having a will, it is a part of the soul which God gave us. Our soul is made up of our mind, will, and emotions. All three of these are wonderful things, especially our will. Problem is, unlike my spirit, my soul is really corrupt still, and until the day that Jesus decides it's time to take me home, my soul is still being formed and molded by God into what he want's it to be. I don't exactly have my trust in my soul to save me, instead I have my trust in Christ and his blood to save me. If I am reliant upon my own soul (will being a part of that) to save me... then I am afraid there is no hope for me. But if I am reliant upon the Lord Jesus Christ (who is God himself) then there is hope for me.

Romans 9 KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

The clay pot, by it's will, does not tell the potter how to form it. The potter forms it according to his own will. The will of the potter is immeasurably more powerful than the will of the pot.

To put the term free in front of the word will, makes it into a kind of misnomer (a wrong or inaccurate name or designation) in my opinion. There is only one person who has "free will," and that is God himself. Everything in all creation is bound by God's will, and limited in it's choices and actions by the boundaries which God has set up. Satan doesn't have free will... for if he did, I wouldn't have a chance on this earth. Satan's will is bound by God as well, he does not have free reign to do as he pleases, but is bound by the limitations God has put on him. In fact, if Satan had free will, he could choose to repent and come humbly before God asking for forgiveness. But he doesn't and can't. His will is sealed to do evil and nothing else. I don't have free will either. If I had free will, I think I would choose to be God.... but I can't do that... I can't become God just because I want to. I am a sinner, sin dwells in me. I am so far from perfect you could put all the telephone line in the world together and it still couldn't connect me to perfection. Despite however much I may want to be God, I can never be God. My will is quiet limited in reality. Yet, at the same time I am in no way a robot, I am a living being, and I thank God for the will he gave me which makes that a reality.

A one month year old baby has a will. If a one month year old decided, using his will, that he wanted to disown his parents and raise himself... well he could sure try. But I imagine that his/her parent's would still continue caring for and loving that little baby regardless. God is the Creator of the whole universe, is he not more mature than us than even a parent is to a baby? If a one month year old baby cannot will himself out of the care of his parents, how can we will ourselves out of the care of our Father, who is immeasurably more mature than us. We are barely even newborns in comparison to him.

A sheep has a will, it can choose to run away from it's shepherd and try to make it on it's own out in the wilderness. Any shepherd worth his salt will track that sheep down and bring him back to the fold though. The sheep is stupid though, and the good Shepherd would never let it make it's own to decision to run away from the fold. That decision would be one made in ignorance and stupidity. Sheep don't have the capability of making wise decisions like that, hence why they need a shepherd. If the sheep were capable of independence, they wouldn't need someone to lead them, they could lead themselves. There are sheep like that though, but the proper name for them are goats. The bible doesn't speak highly of goats though, I'd much rather be a sheep.

God giving me a free will would be the worst thing he could probably do for me. In fact, if God gave me a completely free will, it would demonstrate that he hates me. Because giving a person who has sin dwelling in them a completely free will is the same as putting a noose around their neck, standing them up on a chair, and then kicking the chair out from underneath them. I guarantee you that same person would choose death every time. Apart from Jesus Christ, we all choose death.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, either God is God, or "free will" is God. If God can be bound by anything, if he can not act against something, then that same thing is more powerful than God. If I have "free will," and I can with that "free will" independently decide my eternal destiny, and God cannot act against that decision, then my "free will" is greater than God. God is then less than my "free will," for he is bound to honor my will's decision and cannot act against it.

To put anything above God is always idolatry. To hold our own soul's ability to decide things above what God can decide is idolatry. God is so much bigger than my will. For that I am thankful.

Grace to you,

Travis

[Lou Newton]

The term "free will" is never used in the scriptures given to us by God.

Nonetheless, this term is used quite often in regards to doctrine and explaining things contained in the bible. The bible certainly talks about us using our will, and having a will, it is a part of the soul which God gave us. Our soul is made up of our mind, will, and emotions. All three of these are wonderful things, especially our will. Problem is, unlike my spirit, my soul is really corrupt still, and until the day that Jesus decides it's time to take me home, my soul is still being formed and molded by God into what he want's it to be. I don't exactly have my trust in my soul to save me, instead I have my trust in Christ and his blood to save me. If I am reliant upon my own soul (will being a part of that) to save me... then I am afraid there is no hope for me. But if I am reliant upon the Lord Jesus Christ (who is God himself) then there is hope for me.

Romans 9 KJV
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

The clay pot, by it's will, does not tell the potter how to form it. The potter forms it according to his own will. The will of the potter is immeasurably more powerful than the will of the pot.

To put the term free in front of the word will, makes it into a kind of misnomer (a wrong or inaccurate name or designation) in my opinion. There is only one person who has "free will," and that is God himself. Everything in all creation is bound by God's will, and limited in it's choices and actions by the boundaries which God has set up. Satan doesn't have free will... for if he did, I wouldn't have a chance on this earth. Satan's will is bound by God as well, he does not have free reign to do as he pleases, but is bound by the limitations God has put on him. In fact, if Satan had free will, he could choose to repent and come humbly before God asking for forgiveness. But he doesn't and can't. His will is sealed to do evil and nothing else. I don't have free will either. If I had free will, I think I would choose to be God.... but I can't do that... I can't become God just because I want to. I am a sinner, sin dwells in me. I am so far from perfect you could put all the telephone line in the world together and it still couldn't connect me to perfection. Despite however much I may want to be God, I can never be God. My will is quiet limited in reality. Yet, at the same time I am in no way a robot, I am a living being, and I thank God for the will he gave me which makes that a reality.

A one month year old baby has a will. If a one month year old decided, using his will, that he wanted to disown his parents and raise himself... well he could sure try. But I imagine that his/her parent's would still continue caring for and loving that little baby regardless. God is the Creator of the whole universe, is he not more mature than us than even a parent is to a baby? If a one month year old baby cannot will himself out of the care of his parents, how can we will ourselves out of the care of our Father, who is immeasurably more mature than us. We are barely even newborns in comparison to him.

A sheep has a will, it can choose to run away from it's shepherd and try to make it on it's own out in the wilderness. Any shepherd worth his salt will track that sheep down and bring him back to the fold though. The sheep is stupid though, and the good Shepherd would never let it make it's own to decision to run away from the fold. That decision would be one made in ignorance and stupidity. Sheep don't have the capability of making wise decisions like that, hence why they need a shepherd. If the sheep were capable of independence, they wouldn't need someone to lead them, they could lead themselves. There are sheep like that though, but the proper name for them are goats. The bible doesn't speak highly of goats though, I'd much rather be a sheep.

God giving me a free will would be the worst thing he could probably do for me. In fact, if God gave me a completely free will, it would demonstrate that he hates me. Because giving a person who has sin dwelling in them a completely free will is the same as putting a noose around their neck, standing them up on a chair, and then kicking the chair out from underneath them. I guarantee you that same person would choose death every time. Apart from Jesus Christ, we all choose death.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, either God is God, or "free will" is God. If God can be bound by anything, if he can not act against something, then that same thing is more powerful than God. If I have "free will," and I can with that "free will" independently decide my eternal destiny, and God cannot act against that decision, then my "free will" is greater than God. God is then less than my "free will," for he is bound to honor my will's decision and cannot act against it.

To put anything above God is always idolatry. To hold our own soul's ability to decide things above what God can decide is idolatry. God is so much bigger than my will. For that I am thankful.

Grace to you,

Travis

The demons certainly do not have free will, as you say. They were given free will to choose God or not. But after their choice, they are governed by the will of God.

The demons would have destroyed the man that wondered among the graves, by convincing him to kill himself. But Jesus commanded them to leave him. Jesus overcome the will of demons many times in the NT.

God also overrode the will of men many times. God hardened the heart of Pharaoh to show His glory to Israel by preforming miracles to cause Pharaoh to let them go.

God used the very men that hated Jesus Christ to explain the very purpose of The Christ. I am sure that the High Priest did not want to glorify Christ:

John 11
49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! 50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish." 51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, 52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one

Many times The Lord Jesus has acted without my will making the decision to act.

I was in a church and sitting in the back, when The Lord told me, "don't you know that I have bound all men over to disobedience so that I may have mercy on them all". Then He said, son get up and preach that verse. Their preacher was preaching and I would have to interrupt his sermon. I said, Lord, I know in my heart that verse is true, but please prove to me this is you, by showing me where it is. He simply said, Romans 11:32. I opened to that verse and it was exactly what He had said.

By now the pressure was enormous. Jesus shed His blood for me, and He is asking so little. But I did not have the courage to just get up and interrupt the sermon. So I said, what else do you want me to say. He said, I will give you the words when you start speaking.

So I simply said, Lord I have given my life to you for you to do with it as you please. I do not have the courage or the words to speak. Just then I got on my feet and started preaching in this very loud voice that no one could ignore. I had no need for a mic. I did not decide to get up. I did not have the words. But I listened to the words pouring out of my mouth for about 10 minutes. As they came out, I thought to myself, boy those are really great. But these words were not flowing through my brain, but just pouring out of my mouth.

When The Lord finished, I noticed that not one person was still in their seat. The preacher was on his face behind the pulpit. The people were on the floor at the altar or in the aisles. Some had got out of the pews and kneeled at their pew. Every single person was on the floor on their face, or bowed on their knees.

There was not one person in that building that did not know that God had spoken, including me.

The Lord had spoken, I was simply the lips He used.

Grace to you
Lou Newton
bond servant of Jesus

[AGTG]

That's an awesome testimony, Lou, but it doesn't speak to freewill. It speaks to our current state in fallen vessels.

Really, the idea that man has no freewill is a very radical one that many scriptures refute implicitly and explicitly. But I am not going to argue the point.

[Lou Newton]

That's an awesome testimony, Lou, but it doesn't speak to freewill. It speaks to our current state in fallen vessels.

Really, the idea that man has no freewill is a very radical one that many scriptures refute implicitly and explicitly. But I am not going to argue the point.

Hi Jeff,

Really Jeff, I lived this experience and no one besides The Lord Himself knows what was going on. It can not be expressed in words dear friend.

But here is a scripture to consider:

2 Peter 1
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

We see here Peter says prophecy does speak about the will of man. But the free will of men is NOT involved in prophecy.

But the prophet is simply CARRIED ALONG by The Holy Spirit.

If the will of the man is involved, it is not prophecy at all. But mere words from men. We see much of that today.

Grace to you

Lou Newton
Bond servant of Jesus

[Lou Newton]

That's an awesome testimony, Lou, but it doesn't speak to freewill. It speaks to our current state in fallen vessels.

Really, the idea that man has no freewill is a very radical one that many scriptures refute implicitly and explicitly. But I am not going to argue the point.

Hi Jeff,

You keep bring this up, but I have never said that man has no will.

The will is part of the soul, but I have given my whole life to The Lord Jesus, and trust Him to save my soul, with my will included.

Paul tells us that we do not have to be willing to do His will, but only willing to be made willing to do His will.

I made that decision when I gave my life to Him and told Jesus to make me do His will.

I have listed scripture after scripture about this.

David knew about this:

Ps 23
A psalm of David.
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want. 2 He makes me lie down in green pastures, he leads me beside quiet waters, 3 he restores my soul. He guides me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me 5 You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows. 6 Surely goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

David does not list one thing that he does himself here.

But David says The Lord MAKES him lie down in green pastures.

GTY
Lou Newton
Bond servant of Jesus

[Blane]

That's an awesome testimony, Lou, but it doesn't speak to freewill. It speaks to our current state in fallen vessels.

Really, the idea that man has no freewill is a very radical one that many scriptures refute implicitly and explicitly. But I am not going to argue the point.

Jeff, your assessment of Lou's post and testimony are neither fair nor accurate. You are quoting him out of context. Then you go on to say you're not going to argue the point? Yet your words unwittingly undermine a wonderful testimony to the power and sovereignty of Almighty God. What gives?

Blane