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If You’re a Christian, You Are in Christ

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  • If You’re a Christian, You Are in Christ

    A 2-minute comment by R.C. Sproul on the meaning of "in" Christ.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4jofHGtkmk


  • #2
    This is good! Wish I'd been there!

    The correct idea about Salvation as being only in Christ and is not a commodity or a license or certificate. Only if the believer participates in the existence of Christ can it be said there is Salvation. It is not a gift in the sense of receiving an object the believer possesses, but using gift as a metaphor for Salvation reffers to the fact that it cannot be bought or earned. Salvation essentially is limited to having an ongoing relationship with the Lord Jesus where as in Ephesians 1:6 it reads that Salvation is the acceptance by God in Christ. Since it is only Christ who is accepted, all who are in His Body are accepted. What is true of Christ is true for believers only if believers stay joined "in Christ."

    The salvation Christ provides is not in us. Salvation is only in Christ and only if I am “in Christ” so to be able to participate in His Salvation. What is true of Christ is true for believers only if believers stay joined in Christ.

    Here is an analogy about being "in Christ."
    It is the Queen Mary 2 transatlantic from New York to South Hampton. If you buy a ticket, get on board and don’t jump overboard, you will arrive in South Hampton having enjoyed all the luxuries of the Queen Mary 2 and the benefits of being in South Hampton.

    Now, let the names be changed:
    It is the Lord Jesus’ translife from earth to heaven. If you believe, live your life in Christ and don’t jump off the translife in Christ, you will arrive in heaven having enjoyed all the luxuries of His Grace while on earth and the benefits of heaven.

    JUST DON”T JUMP OVERBOARD when some one tells you the tranlife trip in the Lord Jesus is just a myth.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by glen smith View Post
      This is good! Wish I'd been there!

      The correct idea about Salvation as being only in Christ and is not a commodity or a license or certificate. Only if the believer participates in the existence of Christ can it be said there is Salvation. It is not a gift in the sense of receiving an object the believer possesses, but using gift as a metaphor for Salvation reffers to the fact that it cannot be bought or earned. Salvation essentially is limited to having an ongoing relationship with the Lord Jesus where as in Ephesians 1:6 it reads that Salvation is the acceptance by God in Christ. Since it is only Christ who is accepted, all who are in His Body are accepted. What is true of Christ is true for believers only if believers stay joined "in Christ."

      The salvation Christ provides is not in us. Salvation is only in Christ and only if I am “in Christ” so to be able to participate in His Salvation. What is true of Christ is true for believers only if believers stay joined in Christ.

      Here is an analogy about being "in Christ."
      It is the Queen Mary 2 transatlantic from New York to South Hampton. If you buy a ticket, get on board and don’t jump overboard, you will arrive in South Hampton having enjoyed all the luxuries of the Queen Mary 2 and the benefits of being in South Hampton.

      Now, let the names be changed:
      It is the Lord Jesus’ translife from earth to heaven. If you believe, live your life in Christ and don’t jump off the translife in Christ, you will arrive in heaven having enjoyed all the luxuries of His Grace while on earth and the benefits of heaven.

      JUST DON”T JUMP OVERBOARD when some one tells you the tranlife trip in the Lord Jesus is just a myth.
      If we focus on our own ideas and interpretations we can believe many things. But we need to focus of the Holy Scriptures and what The Lord says instead.

      I had wondered about this subject for years;

      For one we have this which is from The Truth and is totally true, not partially true. Jesus does not speak with tricky words but speaks with total truth:

      John 10

      25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

      If I am saved because I do not jump out of the boat then I can say I am saved because of my actions for I did not jump out of the boat.

      I am the saved. Jesus is the Savior.

      He saves me and I can claim absolutely not one shred of credit for being saved.

      I used to think different and even Paul did at one time:

      I went through a period of years that were so hard that eventually I could not bear it any longer. I was at the end of my strength and could hang on no longer. I knew I was in trouble and could not even pray to ask for forgiveness or ask for help. Following Jesus was too hard and I did not want to do it any longer. But I knew of no other way either. I thought I was lost, or spiritually dead.

      But I would awake the next morning with a new outlook. I did not know how The Lord did that, but I surely did not do it, but He saved me again.

      This also happened to Paul:

      2 Cor 1

      8 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired of life itself. 9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. 10 He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us again.

      Now when Paul was in prison and told he would be killed, he sang songs and did not despair.

      Paul did not preach that natural life was real life. He said they can kill the body, but they can not keep us from eternal life.

      1 - We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, - not only beyond their ability but far beyond their ability to endure.
      Paul doesn't say far beyond our ability to change the circumstances, but far beyond his ability to ENDURE the circumstances.

      2 - so that we despaired of life itself. - not natural life, for that is not life itself. Life itself is real life, or life of the spirit. Paul did not despair when someone threatened his natural life. This happened many times and Paul seemed filled with life because of it. This was far different.

      3 - 9 Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. - Notice that Paul does not say we received a death sentence, but knew that God is indeed Lord. BUT Paul says he FELT the sentence of death in his heart. This is far more serious.

      4 - But here is a reason this all took place. For I was trying to save myself by adding my efforts to survive.

      But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead - God took me through all this to show me that I can not save myself in any way. I thought I was dead, but God can raise the dead and He did raise me from the dead.

      The key is that a person fully give their life to The Lord. If they do, then their life is no longer theirs but in His hands.

      When I first prayed and asked my Creator to forgive me and please take my life. I also asked Him to never give my life back to me no matter what I said. I wanted my life to be in His hands and not my hands.

      In my 41 year walk with Him, I have found that the NO ONE can remove me from His hands, that includes me. For I am also someone.

      I can not take pride in staying in the boat. There is not one place for pride to stand. For I truly wanted out of the boat. I was dead, but God raises the dead.

      Jonah wanted out of the boat and ran from God. But God took him through some circumstances that changed Jonah. Jonah was afraid to go to the most evil city in the world and tell them they were going to be destroyed. He could not do it. But God caused Jonah to walk into that city thinking; I was dead and God raised me from the dead, what can you puny people do to me.

      Jonah was not ready to go and God knew that, for God is never surprised. When Jonah was at the very end of his strength and drowned in the sea, He finally called out to God in death for Him to save him.

      BUT look at how honest Jonah was with God.

      Jonah did not claim that God was calling him to preach in some prosperous and peaceful place instead as many do. They CLAIM they are obeying God but they are not. Jonah never claimed to be obeying God, but admitted He was running away from God. Jonah was trying to run to some place that they never even heard of the God of Israel. Someone could say he was trying to jump out of the boat.

      Look at how honest Jonah was:

      Jonah 1

      But Jonah had gone below deck, where he lay down and fell into a deep sleep. 6 The captain went to him and said, “How can you sleep? Get up and call on your god! Maybe he will take notice of us so that we will not perish.”

      7 Then the sailors said to each other, “Come, let us cast lots to find out who is responsible for this calamity.” They cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah. 8 So they asked him, “Tell us, who is responsible for making all this trouble for us? What kind of work do you do? Where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?”

      9 He answered, “I am a Hebrew and I worship the Lord, the God of heaven, who made the sea and the dry land.”

      10 This terrified them and they asked, “What have you done?” (They knew he was running away from the Lord, because he had already told them so.)

      11 The sea was getting rougher and rougher. So they asked him, “What should we do to you to make the sea calm down for us?”

      12“Pick me up and throw me into the sea,” he replied, “and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this great storm has come upon you.”

      Now most preachers I have met would have told these heathens, who worshiped false gods, that it was their fault and they should repent.

      But Jonah told a ship full of people who worshiped false gods that it was not their fault, but it was his fault. Jonah chose sure death over hiding his sin. Jonah confessed his sin and The Lord surely cleansed him of his sin, did He not.

      Jonah did not save himself. But God saved him. Even though Jonah ran from God, God held Jonah in His hand and no one could remove Jonah from His hand, no one, not even Jonah.

      For Jonah surely died trying to do so.
      Last edited by Lou Newton; March 28, 2017, 02:42 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        You are not the only one who has thought about this subject for years. It has been going on for centuries.

        2 Corinthian 1:8-10 is not about an Apostle Paul who no longer wanted to be an apostle but one under great duress. In the ship analogy the Apostle Paul would still be on board ship or “in Christ.”

        You put what I said in the opposing position where you wrote, “"If I am saved because I do not jump out of the boat then I can say I am saved because of my actions for I did not jump out of the boat.”" If you believe in unconditional election this is logical but not the point. If one jumps overboard it can be safely assumed he is not “in Christ,” was not saved, and is not going to South Hampton. This does not attribute any reason why others remained on board.

        Your personal experience fits the analogy of jumping ship. Granted, just because you jumped ship doesn'’t mean the captain does not send a life boat for you. The question is not will the captain try to recover the jumper but will the jumper return to the ship in the life boat? Whatever the case, it is only those on board (in Christ) who can attain the destination of South Hampton. The only points being made of the ship crossing the Atlantic from New York to South Hampton is you must have a ticket for the passage, board the ship and remain on board to arrive in South Hampton. There is nothing mentioned about the motivation of those remaining “in Christ.” I wrote as my emphasis “"The salvation Christ provides is not in us. Salvation is only in Christ and only if I am “in Christ” so to be able to participate in His Salvation. What is true of Christ is true for believers only if believers stay joined in Christ.”" It is conceded that there is the implication that believers must remain on board even while watching others jump ship. If the "not jumping overboard" is your estimate of the believers’ work for salvation - so let it be called works by you. I see the Bible encouraging believers and not the Holy Ghost to persevere.

        Additional issues you raise are this:

        First: Does a believer’s decision to follow the Lord Jesus stems from his own will to follow or from the absolutely sovereign God who allows no free will? If the answer is there is no free will, thus God is entirely responsible for deciding who believes and who does not believe and for who goes to heaven and who suffers the second death. Of course, this is the Calvinism/Reformed theological position of unconditional election.

        I shall post an official version of the five points of Calvinism from Christian Classics Ethereal Library at Calvin College. I intend to post the opposing Arminianism view of libertarian free will. Arminianism means that our choices are free from the determination or constraints of human nature and free from any predetermination by God. All "free will theists" hold that libertarian freedom is essential for moral responsibility, for if our choice is determined or caused by anything, including our own desires, they reason, it cannot properly be called a free choice. It does not preclude the influence of the Holy Ghost.
        Last edited by glen smith; March 28, 2017, 09:33 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by glen smith View Post
          Does a believer’s decision to follow the Lord Jesus stems from his own will to follow or from the absolutely sovereign God who allows no free will? If the answer is there is no free will, thus God is entirely responsible for deciding who believes and who does not believe and for who goes to heaven and who suffers the second death.
          I made my reply to this on the Calvinism and Reformed Theology topic. I didn't want to turn this topic away from the original post. But I do want to briefly redress the quoted portion, which is the Open Theistic spin of the reformed doctrine; and please note the negative emotional reaction that this spin evokes, because emotion does color our reason. The reformed doctrine does not teach a) there is no free will, and b) God is responsible for man's choices. Rather, we have a stunted humanist view of free will, which falls short of the whole counsel of God. The doctrine of unconditional election is perhaps better said as effectual calling. If a man is not called effectually, he will continue to love the dark and hate the light. The tension between Open and Closed Theism is: God has mercy on whom He wills; yet He holds those accountable who are not ordained to eternal life. How we as humble beings make sense of that is a matter of great complexity. And perhaps some aspects are beyond the capacity of a temporal mind.

          Fortunately, we don't need to solve such complexities to bring people to Christ, or come to Christ.

          Psa 8:2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

          Once we have believed, we're exhorted to "enter in", "put on" Christ, and abide "in Christ", and not depart. These sayings we can grasp with little difficulty.

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          • #6
            Baruch, your post demonstartes ample knowledge of what you speak.

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