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  • There is ONE and ONLY ONE infinite God

    Satan can NOT counterfeit The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Satan is NOT omnipresent. He can not be Satan, the Antichrist and the False prophet. He has to convince others to parade as the other two.

    God is unique. There is not one other like Him. How do we know this ? Well this universe is very very large. It seems infinite, but it is not. But certainly reason dictates that if it had a beginning, it had to have a Beginner that existed outside of the space-time. Now if this person is outside of space -time, then He has to be infinite, because He existed BEFORE time. That is the very definition of infinite. Now infinity contains everything there is by definition. So there can not be but ONE infinite being.

    Different beings have to be different to be different. That means that one would have something the other did not have, or they could not be different. But if one had anything the other did not have, that other one would NOT be infinite. That one would lack something. Infinity contains everything to be infinite. So God is unique. There is but ONE God.

    So there can be ONE and ONLY ONE infinite being and that is God. Yes there is The Father, The Son , and the Holy Spirit. But He is NOT three but ONE. If He was three, each one would have to be different to be three instead of one. If they were different, they could not be infinite, or could not contain all of God. If any one of the three lacked anything they would not be God at all.

    Satan can not do this. He can not truly imitate God. Satan is not only far less than God, but so far less that it is far beyond our ability to even imagine the difference. God is the One and Only Infinite being. He is the One and Only Being that is omnipresent. God can be on His Throne in heaven, and also everywhere in this universe at the same time as His Holy Spirit is.

    The original doctrine written by Athanasian in Greek , ( The Pope took this doctrine and changed it to say what he wanted it to say, and called it the Trinity doctrine) stated that:

    Yes there is the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit, but He is NOT three, but ONE God. This was stated over and over again in the doctrine.

    Where did Athanasian get this ? From the Holy Scriptures.

  • #2
    Isn't It one God with three distinct persons? Otherwise, how could Jesus be forsaken while on the cross? Removing oneself from oneself? Not easily fathomed.
    Three people acting in harmony as one? The Father being the Head. Because Jesus constantly claimed that He does the will of His Father. He never claims to do His own will.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
      Isn't It one God with three distinct persons? Otherwise, how could Jesus be forsaken while on the cross? Removing oneself from oneself? Not easily fathomed.
      Three people acting in harmony as one? The Father being the Head. Because Jesus constantly claimed that He does the will of His Father. He never claims to do His own will.
      Thanks for the very kind reply Steve. You bring up some very good questions.

      1st of all, I can not reveal truth to anyone. One must seek God and ask Him to reveal the Truth to them.

      The word person in English also refers to personality. A person has a unique personality. So each person is different and unique. There is no one like any other person, they are unique.

      Why is this so important. Satan who is the father of all lies, and if we are going to believe in Jesus, then he wants us to believe that there is a supreme God in heaven who did NOT die for us. He wants us to look upon our Father as very strict God who is ogre like and is not full of mercy and grace. Satan wants us to look upon Jesus as a helpless person who has no real power, for The Father is the One who has the power. He has even convinced many to look upon Jesus as Baby Jesus. Yes Jesus has mercy for you, but look out The God in heaven is the real power and He is not so full of mercy and grace as baby Jesus.

      There is not one place in the ancient Hebrew Scriptures, or the ancient Greek scriptures, where God refers to Himself as three persons. But God refers to Himself as ONE many many places in the Holy Scriptures.

      Lets look at some of these places:

      1st of all Jesus said God is ONE:

      Mark 12 NIV

      The Greatest Commandment

      28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

      29“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

      Now Jesus is the Creator of everything that exists. So certainly He could have said The Lord is three, or the Lord is Three in One, or the Lord is Trinity. BUT He did not. So this was the verse that caused me to question the popular teaching of the Trinity. Yes God appears in three different forms, but He is NOT three different persons, but as Jesus said One.

      But as God says, everything must be established by two, or more witnesses:

      4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the door frames of your houses and on your gates.

      That alone should settle it,. God Himself calls Himself One, why would we say different. But let us see if we can understand more fully.

      Isaiah 9:6 GNV

      6 For unto us a child is born, and unto us a Son is given: and the government is upon his shoulder, and he shall call his name, Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The prince of peace.

      So here we have God ( He shall call His Name) calling the child ( Jesus) The Mighty God, meaning THE One and Only mighty God; Wonderful Counselor, or The Holy Spirit; and The Everlasting Father. Everlasting Father means Jesus always was The Father and always will be The Father.

      So God Himself Calls Jesus The Everlasting Father.

      Isaiah 43 NIV

      10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord,
      “and my servant whom I have chosen,
      so that you may know and believe me
      and understand that I am he.
      Before me no god was formed,
      nor will there be one after me.
      11 I, even I, am the Lord,
      and apart from me there is no savior.


      So God our Father is the One and Only God and no God will be formed before or after Him. He is our One and Only Savior, there is no other.

      John 2 NIV NOTE: after Jesus cleared the Temple:

      18 The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

      19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

      20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

      So if Jesus was a different person from the Father and that person died, then how could the dead raise the dead ? But we know Jesus did raise Himself from the dead. How is this possible ?

      Notice that Jesus did not say my Father will raise me from the dead, but I will. But other places it says The Father raised Jesus from the dead:

      Galatians 1 : 1 Paul, an apostle - sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.

      There is only one way these can both be true. The Manhood of Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God and also The One and Only God our Father. His Manhood is the only Begotten Son of God and fully man. His Godhood if the One and Only God our Creator and so our Father. This duel nature of Christ confuses many. Sometimes Jesus speaks as a Man and is obedient to God as every man should be. But sometimes Jesus speaks as God Almighty and has all power and authority.

      God is Life and can not die. Life can not also be death. Just as love can not be hate. Lies can not be truth. God is Life. God had to become a Man so that He could die for us. The Godhood of Jesus did not die. It was the Manhood of Jesus that died. Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. Begotten means born of a woman. But Mary is NOT the mother of God. She is the mother of His human body only, His Manhood. His Manhood was not God.

      Jesus is FULLY Man and FULLY God. Jesus is not one bit, not fully a man. Jesus is also not one tiny bit less than the One and Only God.

      One reason God became a Man was to prove that a man could live without sinning. For if a Man could not live without sinning, God would be unjust to judge us for sinning. The Manhood of Jesus was FULLY a man. So Jesus proved a man could live his whole life without sinning. So God is just in asking us all to not sin and judging us for our sin. But if the Manhood of Jesus was also God, then Jesus proved nothing by not sinning, for His manhood would be God and God certainly can not sin.

      But The Manhood of Jesus was NOT God, but fully a man that was able to sin, or not sin. It was his choice to sin or not. So we are all guilty of sin and deserve to die for eternity.

      But Jesus was also FULLY the One and Only God our Creator and so our Father.

      John 19 NIV

      The Death of Jesus


      28 Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, “I am thirsty.” 29 A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus’ lips. 30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.


      Matthew 27 NIV

      The Death of Jesus


      45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land. 46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[c]lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).

      47 When some of those standing there heard this, they said, “He’s calling Elijah.”

      48 Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a staff, and offered it to Jesus to drink. 49 The rest said, “Now leave him alone. Let’s see if Elijah comes to save him.”

      50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

      51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

      54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

      The Godhood of Jesus had to leave him so that his Manhood could die. God has many sons that were born of a man and woman. But God has only One Son that he Himself begot through Mary. Think of how painful that must have been for God to forsake His Only Begotten son so we could all be forgiven. Not to mention the pain of His manhood suffering on that cruel cross and being in the grave for 3 days and nights.

      So the Manhood of Jesus died on the cross and the Godhood of Jesus ( who is Life itself) raised His manhood from the dead.

      When Jesus said I WILL raise this temple, ( His Temple was then His human body) He proved that he was a man that would die, and also the One and Only God who alone can raise the dead.

      Jesus is both fully God and fully man. His Godhood is the One and Only God out Creator and so our Father. His Manhood is fully a man, born of a woman, and so able to die for our sin.
      Last edited by Lou Newton; June 28, 2020, 11:46 AM.

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      • #4
        I understand all the points you make, but I have not read anywhere in the scriptures where God refers to Himself as "One Person". Yes He makes a strict point that God is one. One God, no other Gods before Him. But as it is also too high for a mere man such as myself to interpret God and what He is, I believe from what I have read that Jesus is a distinct person of the God Head and has the ability to make His own decisions but defers to the Father's will instead. That was the whole point in His temptation and overcoming. If He was not able to be tempted, then there is no test. He was tested. And proved.
        Very complex matter and perhaps never to be concluded, but there are certainly many questions to ponder and I believe neither of us have it understood as long as we are trapped in these flesh suits.
        But on this we can agree; Jesus is most definitely God. Blessings

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
          I understand all the points you make, but I have not read anywhere in the scriptures where God refers to Himself as "One Person". Yes He makes a strict point that God is one. One God, no other Gods before Him. But as it is also too high for a mere man such as myself to interpret God and what He is, I believe from what I have read that Jesus is a distinct person of the God Head and has the ability to make His own decisions but defers to the Father's will instead. That was the whole point in His temptation and overcoming. If He was not able to be tempted, then there is no test. He was tested. And proved.
          Very complex matter and perhaps never to be concluded, but there are certainly many questions to ponder and I believe neither of us have it understood as long as we are trapped in these flesh suits.
          But on this we can agree; Jesus is most definitely God. Blessings
          Hi Steve, good to see you on the forum. I think we are getting lost a bit in word play, and that's really difficult for us to trust something that we have limited eye sight over. Paul says we see dimly now, but later we will see in all fullness. So I come back to what does one mean? There are multiple opportunities for Jesus to say my Father, and also multiple times he says he is God. The only way the bible makes sense is to realize that Jesus is the Father in the flesh as the gospel of John 1st chapter declares. Also, when he's talking to Peter, he asks Peter who he is. Peter says he's the Christ, the savior, the only son of God, and Jesus says on that revelation is what he built his church upon. So Peter must have understood that Jesus was God in the flesh. To think that there's a 3 person being in one person, there would have to be a demonstration of it. While it sometimes appears that way, no scripture comes out directly and says that, but many say God is one. So God, no matter what it looks like to us, must be one being appearing as he chooses.

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          • #6
            Hi Lou,
            I hope all is well with you and your family. Navigating the violation of our rights okay I hope. I've been managing since my work is an essential service. Sort of. It's all a gray area. Manipulation at it's finest, kinda like the moon landing, no? Even I watched it on TV and had no idea. But like I said before, what do I know?

            Anyway, my confusion lies in the perceived notion that Jesus and the Father are the same person. How can They be the same person and yet one of them is removed from the duo at the crucifixion? Sounds too inexplicable for me.

            Another issue, if at all times Jesus does the will of His Father, what's the difference? He does not have a separate will to distinguish from the Father's if they are the same person, no? So how can there be obedience? To ones own self? Not likely what is meant. We are being instructed, and by example of course; to learn how to obey the will of the Father under any and all circumstances through our life's walk and the testing we undertake. That would not be possible if my will no longer exists and I and the Father/Jesus become one person and now only His will exists, because I'm here to tell you, I would love that but it has not happened. Every day is a war between the ears. The battle goes down deep into my heart, and I would guess my soul. My nature is deplorable and I must surrender it daily. Rough stuff. If I may say.

            So I am having trouble crossing the bridge between Jesus being a distinct person of the God Head, but not the Father verses He and The Father are the same person.

            Having all the power and authority He proved Himself worthy by the death even death on the cross. So afterwards, His name was above all names, yet it was before the worlds were even made.

            Tilt! Some things are too high for us, and how can a man in this timeline understand eternity unless he is taught by God Himself?

            Oh well, Jesus is Lord and we were taught to pray to the Father as He did and in His name makes us pure. I'm glad I was able to get back on and start posting.
            Has Barry been around?
            Blessings ..... Steve

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
              Hi Lou,
              I hope all is well with you and your family. Navigating the violation of our rights okay I hope. I've been managing since my work is an essential service. Sort of. It's all a gray area. Manipulation at it's finest, kinda like the moon landing, no? Even I watched it on TV and had no idea. But like I said before, what do I know?

              Anyway, my confusion lies in the perceived notion that Jesus and the Father are the same person. How can They be the same person and yet one of them is removed from the duo at the crucifixion? Sounds too inexplicable for me.

              Another issue, if at all times Jesus does the will of His Father, what's the difference? He does not have a separate will to distinguish from the Father's if they are the same person, no? So how can there be obedience? To ones own self? Not likely what is meant. We are being instructed, and by example of course; to learn how to obey the will of the Father under any and all circumstances through our life's walk and the testing we undertake. That would not be possible if my will no longer exists and I and the Father/Jesus become one person and now only His will exists, because I'm here to tell you, I would love that but it has not happened. Every day is a war between the ears. The battle goes down deep into my heart, and I would guess my soul. My nature is deplorable and I must surrender it daily. Rough stuff. If I may say.

              So I am having trouble crossing the bridge between Jesus being a distinct person of the God Head, but not the Father verses He and The Father are the same person.

              Having all the power and authority He proved Himself worthy by the death even death on the cross. So afterwards, His name was above all names, yet it was before the worlds were even made.

              Tilt! Some things are too high for us, and how can a man in this timeline understand eternity unless he is taught by God Himself?

              Oh well, Jesus is Lord and we were taught to pray to the Father as He did and in His name makes us pure. I'm glad I was able to get back on and start posting.
              Has Barry been around?
              Blessings ..... Steve
              Hi Steve,

              I talk to Barry on the phone every once in a while, Julie has posted lately and we have talked on the phone several times. Blane has posted some time ago, but not for several months. Red Sox lives in town and I helped him move a few days ago. Fisherman has posted every now and then and seems to be doing a little better from his stroke. Glen and me email back and forth and I post his email frequently. Carl calls infrequently and posts even less. He is always grateful and seems to be doing well. Vickie called out of the blue a few weeks ago a couple of times and seems to be doing well. I keep in touch with Bruce on Facebook and he is doing very well. If I have forgotten to mention anyone please ask about them.

              The mystery about Jesus is easier to understand IF we focus on the fact that He is BOTH fully man and Fully God. His Godhood is the one and only God. His Manhood was born of a woman or begotten. It is His Manhood that was obedient to His Godhood. After all God can NOT be tempted and is always righteous.

              James 1 NIV

              13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

              But we know Jesus was tempted, as you stated in your post. So we know it was not His Godhood that was tempted, but His Manhood. It is this duel nature of Jesus that confuses so many. They see Jesus being a man in the scriptures and then other times being God and they think there are two God's. After all if Jesus and the Father are two persons then that is two God's not one. God is SUPREME, that is the definition of God. If Jesus is not Supreme He is not God.

              JW's say that Jesus is not God, but The Son of God. Well the only begotten Son of God is a man, that is what begotten means. To say that Jesus is God but not the Supreme God or the Godhead is JW light to me. It is still saying that our Creator or our Father did not die for us.

              The Mormons are further from the truth in saying that Jesus is the Son of God but Jesus and Satan are brothers. They demote Jesus even further.

              Jesus says He is the First and the Last. There can only be ONE who is First. You can not have two that are first. Jesus is The Lord of ALL lords. That can only be totally true if Jesus is The One and Only God our Father. There can be no one above Him. Now there is One above His Manhood. His Godhood is above His Manhood.

              Look what is says about Jesus in Hebrews:

              Hebrews 7 NIV

              Melchizedek the Priest


              7 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

              4 Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5 Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, from their fellow Israelites—even though they also are descended from Abraham. 6 This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7 And without doubt the lesser is blessed by the greater. 8 In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

              Jesus Like Melchizedek


              11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared:

              NOTE; above it stated that Jesus has the power of an indestructible life, like Melchizedek. But Jesus died. It was His Manhood that died, His Godhood has the power of an indestructible life. ( God can not die, He is LIFE) Proven when the Godhood of Jesus raised the Manhood of Jesus from the dead. After all Jesus said I WILL raise this Temple referring to His human body.

              “You are a priest forever,
              in the order of Melchizedek.”


              18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

              20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

              “The Lord has sworn
              and will not change his mind:
              ‘You are a priest forever.’”

              22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

              23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

              NOTE: If Jesus lives forever, forever means always has and always will live. BUT we know that Jesus died. The dead can not remain the Priest. It was only the Manhood of Jesus that died. The Godhood of Jesus can not die, OR has the power of an indestructible life. Indestructible life means God can not die. There is only one way all this can be true. The Godhood of Jesus is God and it was the Manhood of Jesus that died.

              26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

              Philippians 2 NIV

              Imitating Christ’s Humility


              2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

              5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

              6Who, being in very nature God,
              did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

              7 rather, he made himself nothing
              by taking the very nature of a servant,
              being made in human likeness.
              8 And being found in appearance as a man,
              he humbled himself
              by becoming obedient to death—
              even death on a cross!

              9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
              and gave him the name that is above every name,

              10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
              in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
              11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
              to the glory of God the Father.

              NOTE: Jesus is the very highest Name of God because Jesus displayed the very highest nature of God. Jesus is God Almighty but did not demand to be treated like God, but humbled Himself and acted like a man. God's highest nature is humble and meek. After all He came down to earth and was born of a woman to become one of us. The Creator became one of His creatures. That is meek.


              Maybe you could read post # 3 again. You may have read it before I edited it and added a lot of things. But the most important thing is to seek God and ask Him to reveal Himself more fully to you. I can tell you I wrestled with this issue for years before The Lord was able to make this blind man see. You know the miracle when Jesus healed the blind man and he said he could see men walking around like trees. Jesus had to touch him again for him to see more clearly. Jesus had to touch me many times for me to be able to see these things.

              I will post more on this later. The evidence is overwhelming and is all through the Holy Scriptures. I need to get to out there on my bike ride before it gets to hot. I bike today for an hour and then lift light weights at the Y .

              I enjoy your questions. I am sure most everyone has these same questions. So they are very helpful to everyone, including me.

              A sinner saved by grace and grace alone

              His bond servant

              Lou Newton


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