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Introducing the Divine Council Worldview

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  • #31
    My preference was to verify the Bible study on why the Apostle Paul desired to go to Spain. I continue to work on this (Michael S. Heiser’s position) since what I post above does not destroy that hypothesis.

    Baruch posted:
    Language hooks are indeed used by the writers of the New Testament, and I expect you know this (and let us not overlook that all Scripture is breathed by God; so when Heiser said Luke meant it, we may conclude it was the Spirit that meant it).

    I am in agreement with what is posted above from Baruch. However, Baruch does not say “word hooks” but “language hooks.” Specifically this means quotes from scripture, symbols, stories, and a some theologically significant words like the Exodus, Moses, Abraham, Israel, Jacob, or atonement and not common words. Unless a single OT word has a significant and unique theological meaning, the use of it in the NT would not be a worm hole from the LXX to the NT. There are just too many commonly used words to make worm holes for every word used even in related contexts. Finding these is no indication that the Holy Spirit specifically selected the word unless by inspiration one means a word for word dictation.


    There are 5,437 different lexical forms of words in the New Testament.

    Rare words: 2,000 of them appear only once (36%).
    Many of these are proper nouns, but even removing those, you are left with a ton of vocabulary that only appears one time.

    Common words: 310 words account for 5.5% of the total vocabulary of the NT, but they make up almost 80% of total occurrences of words in the NT.

    Reply continued:
    With the exception of the Apostle Paul, the New Testament writers do not claim inspiration. The Apostle Peter states the writings of the Apostle Paul are scripture.
    Luke never makes that claim but twice provides a different source for the content of his writings.

    Luke 1:1-4
    Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us, 2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word, 3 it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus; 4 so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught.

    The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach,

    If interpretation allows worm holes of commonly used words from the LXX to the Greek NT there is no end to what could be made up.

    As stated above, I continue attempting to confirm Heiser on his hypothecs. I would like for it to prove factual. Even if it does not, the idea has theological merit and could be introduced a speculative insight.

    Baruch posted:
    If your skepticism persists, then when do you think the nations will be redeemed? And what might that look like?

    Discernment demands skepticism –- even of oneself.

    Redeeming the nations:
    Baruch is insightful in previously noting that what Heiser is presenting could be headed toward postmillennialism. However, the postmillennial assumptions are not required to support the position that the Kingdom of God came with the Lord Jesus and continues growing throughout the nations until the Lord returns (Daniel 2). This would match the amillennialist position and the premillennialist position up to the beginning of the “last days.”
    Last edited by glen smith; February 12th, 2018, 02:25 PM.


    • #32
      Originally posted by Baruch View Post
      If you're new to the topic of the Divine Council, then you can get Dr. Michael Heiser's 30-minute crash course
      Divine Council Intro.

      Once you have the who and why of the Divine Council, next is an excellent study by Dr. Heiser that ties the book of Acts soundly to the tower of Babel incident. I found this extremely fascinating.

      Introducing the Divine Council Worldview

      The videos are from the "start here" section of Dr. Heiser's NakedBible podcast web site, and are his recommended prep studies for listening to the NakedBible podcast episodes.

      If you like the podcasts there is also a RSS feed on his general site on which he announces new episodes.
      I have been listening to Michael Heiser on youtube.
      I will be obtaining his book "The Unseen Realm."

      Regardless of anyone's view on such doctrines as Calvinism his lectures are very much worth listening to if one is willing to come to a correct understanding of the Bible. Why?

      All of us who are reared in a culture dominated by the western philosophical tradition basically think like Greeks and the western philosophies emanating from Greek philosophy. This means all our culture, from language structure and word meanings to all ideas are ingrained in us as the western philosophical tradition. If someone desires to understand another tradition, as the Chinese or Japanese traditions, the process of comprehending how they think requires study and due diligence and usually a teacher who is an expert. First, one must be able to distinguish the elements of the western philosophical tradition in their own thinking so as to be able to observe the differences of another tradition. What this means for understanding the culturally influenced ideas in the Bible is to know the difference between how we are thinking like Greeks but should be thinking like Hebrews. Heiser does well in making these distinctions without the Bible student having to be a philosopher.

      Comprehending the worldview of those commissioned to record the Old and New Testaments is an essential, foundational perspective in understanding the biblical nuances over which there is much consternation and speculation. Because of my undergraduate studies one of my choices for a major could have been declared in philosophy. It is from this philosophical exposure that I became aware of the inadequacies of reading the New Testament Greek when those recording the texts thought like Hebrews (a Hebrew worldview). In studying the Hebrew and Aramaic languages of the Old Testament, that too emphasized the need to think like an ancient Hebrew because much of the language study was about the philosophical differences between the ancient Hebrews and the western philosophical tradition. This is how I became an advocate for learning how to think like an ancient Hebrew back about 1974. However, being an advocate and finding resources are not the same. Michael Heiser is presenting the resources that any believer of normal intelligence may use. Therefore, I need not be a scholar to finally grasp many of the nuances of thinking like a Hebrew.

      Heiser often chases rabbits but the information is there. He is also a debunker of weird ideas drawn from biblical speculations. This is where he gained notoriety.

      In the modern western world, Christianity is under assault mainly because of these uninformed ideas about the Bible which are projected by immature but innocent believers. If Christianity is to regain its influence on the culture the starting point might be for believers to let Heiser educate them.

      A topic proposed by Heiser led me to post:

      Glen posted #29
      My preference was to verify the Bible study on why the Apostle Paul desired to go to Spain. I continue to work on this since what I post here does not destroy that hypothesis.
      I am attempting to discover the information that supports the hypothesis.

      Glen posted #31
      My preference was to verify the Bible study on why the Apostle Paul desired to go to Spain. I continue to work on this (Michael S. Heiser’s position) since what I post above does not destroy that hypothesis.

      Answer: Heiser flatly states as part of the video referenced below that this idea he presented cannot be demonstrated.
      Wish I had heard him say that before spending more than thirtty hours trying to demonstrate his idea.