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  • Does God hate homosexuality ?

    Why does God hate homosexuality ? Some may ask does God hate homosexuality ? Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah ?

    What can we learn from the shooting in Orlando ?

    Genesis 13
    Abram and Lot Separate

    1 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him.
    2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.
    3 From the Negev he went from place to place until he came to Bethel, to the place between Bethel and Ai where his tent had been earlier
    4 and where he had first built an altar. There Abram called on the name of the LORD.
    5 Now Lot, who was moving about with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents.
    6 But the land could not support them while they stayed together, for their possessions were so great that they were not able to stay together.
    7 And quarreling arose between Abram’s herders and Lot’s. The Canaanites and Perizzites were also living in the land at that time.
    8 So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herders and mine, for we are close relatives.
    9 Is not the whole land before you? Let’s part company. If you go to the left, I’ll go to the right; if you go to the right, I’ll go to the left.”
    10 Lot looked around and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan toward Zoar was well watered, like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt. (This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)
    11 So Lot chose for himself the whole plain of the Jordan and set out toward the east. The two men parted company:
    12 Abram lived in the land of Canaan, while Lot lived among the cities of the plain and pitched his tents near Sodom.
    13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

    14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, “Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west.
    15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever.
    16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.
    17 Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”

    18 So Abram went to live near the great trees of Mamre at Hebron, where he pitched his tents. There he built an altar to the LORD.
    Last edited by Lou Newton; June 13, 2016, 09:34 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
    Why does God hate homosexuality ? Some may ask does God hate homosexuality ? Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah ?

    What can we learn from the shooting in Orlando ?

    Genesis 13
    Abram and Lot Separate

    1 So Abram went up from Egypt to the Negev, with his wife and everything he had, and Lot went with him.
    2 Abram had become very wealthy in livestock and in silver and gold.

    Note: A lot of this gold and sliver and animals was given to Abraham by the Pharaoh of Egypt.

    3 From the Negev he went from place to place until he came to Bethel, to the place between Bethel and Ai where his tent had been earlier
    4 and where he had first built an altar. There Abram called on the name of the LORD.

    Note: those who call upon the name of The Lord will be saved. Notice that it does not say that Lot called upon the name of The Lord.

    5 Now Lot, who was moving about with Abram, also had flocks and herds and tents.

    Note: Notice that it does not say that Lot was wealthy in these things like Abraham.

    6 But the land could not support them while they stayed together, for their possessions were so great that they were not able to stay together.
    7 And quarreling arose between Abram’s herders and Lot’s. The Canaanites and Perizzites were also living in the land at that time.

    Note: we will see that it shows us that Abraham is not selfish, but Lot is. Also Abraham is very concerned that there is no quarreling between them, but Lot does not show concern. Additionally Abraham was wise enough to know that they dare not show a divided front to the others around them, or they might be attacked.


    8 So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herders and mine, for we are close relatives.
    9 Is not the whole land before you? Let’s part company. If you go to the left, I’ll go to the right; if you go to the right, I’ll go to the left.”
    10 Lot looked around and saw that the whole plain of the Jordan toward Zoar was well watered, like the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt. (This was before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.)
    11 So Lot chose for himself the whole plain of the Jordan and set out toward the east. The two men parted company:
    12 Abram lived in the land of Canaan, while Lot lived among the cities of the plain and pitched his tents near Sodom.
    13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.



    NOTE: Notice that Abraham had treated Lot as a son and taken him in when his father died. But Lot does not insist that Abraham choose first, OR offer the well watered land to the man who had been like a father to him. Instead he takes what he thinks is the best land for himself. If Lot had offered this land to Abraham, Abraham would not have taken it. He would never have chosen to live near Sodom. Later he told the King of Sodom he would not even touch his shoelace.
    But Lot is not offended by the people of Sodom or their sin against the Lord. He chooses to live near them to have his animals in the well watered grass. He will not have to move his tent around because with this much grass he can stay in one place. He chooses to live near sinful men to have less work, or it is more convenient.
    Instead, Abraham thought it was well worth the effort to separate himself from the people of Sodom.


    14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, “Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west.
    15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever.
    16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.
    17 Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”

    18 So Abram went to live near the great trees of Mamre at Hebron, where he pitched his tents. There he built an altar to the LORD.
    Note: Notice that The Lord offered this promise to Abraham RIGHT AFTER LOT LEFT. This promise was not for Lot, but for Abraham. One could argue that it was The Lord that allowed Lot to quarrel and then separate from Abraham so that God could give this promise to him. God wanted Abraham to know that this promise did not include Lot. Lot's grandsons were Moab and Ammon and they were certainly NOT included in the promise.

    But notice that Sodom was sinning GREATLY against The Lord at this time:

    13 Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.
    Last edited by Lou Newton; June 13, 2016, 12:15 PM.

    Comment


    • #3

      Genesis 14 Abram Rescues Lot

      1 At the time when Amraphel was king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Kedorlaomer king of Elam and Tidal king of Goyim,
      2 these kings went to war against Bera king of Sodom, Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, Shemeber king of Zeboyim, and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar).
      3 All these latter kings joined forces in the Valley of Siddim (that is, the Dead Sea Valley).
      4 For twelve years they had been subject to Kedorlaomer, but in the thirteenth year they rebelled.

      Note: One could ask, did Sodom have an agreement with them and then break it ?


      5 In the fourteenth year, Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him went out and defeated the Rephaites in Ashteroth Karnaim, the Zuzites in Ham, the Emites in Shaveh Kiriathaim
      6 and the Horites in the hill country of Seir, as far as El Paran near the desert.
      7 Then they turned back and went to En Mishpat (that is, Kadesh), and they conquered the whole territory of the Amalekites, as well as the Amorites who were living in Hazezon Tamar.

      Note: These four Kings defeated all of the people to the east of the dead sea valley. These included the Amorites and the Amalekites which were powerful nations.


      8 Then the king of Sodom, the king of Gomorrah, the king of Admah, the king of Zeboyim and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar) marched out and drew up their battle lines in the Valley of Siddim
      9 against Kedorlaomer king of Elam, Tidal king of Goyim, Amraphel king of Shinar and Arioch king of Ellasar—four kings against five.
      10 Now the Valley of Siddim was full of tar pits, and when the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled, some of the men fell into them and the rest fled to the hills.
      11 The four kings seized all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah and all their food; then they went away.
      12 They also carried off Abram’s nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.

      Note: it seems foolish to me for the Kings of the dead sea valley to have fought these four Kings since they had already defeated powerful nations. One might suspect that the people of Sodom were very aggressive and arrogant. The men fled to the hills and abandoned their wife and children to the enemy to be taken as slaves. These were the same men who had started this whole war by rebelling. Also notice that Lot is now living IN Sodom, not near it. Lot received the same penalty that the people of Sodom got. He and his family were carried away by the ENEMY. (of course the real enemy is Satan) One could well argue that salvation from the enemy could be the reward for separating oneself from those like the men in Sodom. But that will take effort to do so. We see that Lot lost all of his possessions that he had put more importance on than his relationship with Abraham, or Melchizedek.


      13 A man who had escaped came and reported this to Abram the Hebrew. Now Abram was living near the great trees of Mamre the Amorite, a brother of Eshkol and Aner, all of whom were allied with Abram.

      NOTE: WHY did this man who had seen the battle seek out Abraham ? He must have heard something about Abraham and the God he served.
      But even more, why did the four great Kings who had defeated so many powerful nations, all the way from Persia to the dead sea, stop there. Why did they not attack Salem which was a few miles from there ? I would offer this:
      John 21: 25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
      Now Melchizedek (which means King of Righteousness) had done many things which are not written down and people in far off lands had heard of these things. Just as the deeds as Jesus were heard in Rome. These Kings were fearful of Melchizedek. Just as evil men fear a righteous man.


      14 When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan.

      NOTE: Abraham had trained his men for war. He was not one who sat back and did nothing to stop evil. He had seen evil and was prepared to fight against it.

      15 During the night Abram divided his men to attack them and he routed them, pursuing them as far as Hobah, north of Damascus.

      NOTE: it is 136 miles from Jerusalem to Damascus. This was not a small effort he made.

      16 He recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people.
      17 After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley).

      NOTE: The King of Sodom was there to recover what he had lost by his own actions.

      18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High,
      19 and he blessed Abram, saying, “Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth.
      20 And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand.” Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.


      NOTICE: that Melchizedek is both King and Priest of The Creator. No mere man was ever given BOTH positions by God. Only God can be both King and Priest.

      NOTE: We can see here that Melchizedek ( who was The King of Righteousness and Priest of God most High) served Abraham communion and then blessed him. Melchizedek also revealed that he is The Creator of heaven and earth, and that He was the one who delivered these enemies into Abraham's hands. Further Abraham ( who had just defeated the four Kings that defeated the king of Sodom and the 4 Kings with him) gave a tenth of everything to Melchizedek. That is an act of worship that the king of Sodom witnessed with his own eyes.
      The King of Sodom also seen whoever Melchizedek blessed was truly blessed and who ever was against Melchizedek was certainly cursed.
      Whoever Melchizedek blessed was saved from the enemy and whoever was against Him was defeated by the enemy.
      He could not help but hearing from The Holy Spirit at this point. He could have fallen on his knees and repented on the spot, but instead he decided to hang onto his homosexuality and his power over others.
      He made his choice and we all know what the consequences were for him for his choice.



      21 The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
      22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,
      23 that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, ‘I made Abram rich.’

      Note: first of all the King of Sodom could have asked in more humble way considering all that had taken place. He could have said, "Would you, who have defeated my enemies, be so gracious as to give me back my people, who I do not deserve; but please keep all the goods for yourself".
      But Abraham did not want his people ,who were all homosexual, (because as we will see everyone was forced to be homosexual in Sodom); or the goods from Sodom.


      24 I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me—to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.”

      Note: Notice Abraham does not decide for others, but gives everyone the freedom to make their own decision.

      We see here that God gave the King of Sodom every chance to see who the real God was and every chance to repent and follow Him.
      Last edited by Lou Newton; January 8, 2017, 09:44 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Genesis 18 The Three Visitors

        1 The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day.
        2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
        3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by.
        4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree.
        5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.” “Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

        NOTE: We see here that The Lord not only SPOKE to Abraham, but He APPEARED to him this time. That means that Abraham seen Him with his eyes and heard him with his ears.

        6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick,” he said, “get three seahs of the finest flour and knead it and bake some bread.”
        7 Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it.
        8 He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.
        9 “Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him. “There, in the tent,” he said.
        10 Then one of them said, “I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.” Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him.
        11 Abraham and Sarah were already very old, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing.
        12 So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, “After I am worn out and my lord is old, will I now have this pleasure?”
        13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’
        14 Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”
        15 Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, “I did not laugh.” But he said, “Yes, you did laugh.” Abraham Pleads for Sodom

        16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way.

        NOTE: the city of Sodom was the very lowest city on the face of the earth ( physically the dead sea plain in the lowest place on the earth for the dead sea is about 1400 feet below sea level. Jerusalem is about 2580 feet above sea level. So Salem was almost 4000 feet above Sodom. But Sodom was probably less than 20 miles distance.

        17 Then the LORD said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?

        18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.
        19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”
        20 Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
        21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.
        If not, I will know.”

        NOTE: The Lord does not say that all born of Abraham will be his children. But all who he directs, and they follow, to keep the way of The Lord. Which is to trust the Lord to save them.

        NOTE: we see that the sin of Sodom was very great and the outcry from it's victims was great. So this sin was not only a sin against their own person and God, but it was something done to others who were innocent of this sin; and it as done against their will.


        22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.
        23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?
        24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it?
        25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”
        26 The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”
        27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes,
        28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?” “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”
        29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?” He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”
        30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?” He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”
        31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?” He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”
        32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”
        33 When the LORD had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

        So it seems that not even ten people were in the Sodom and Gomorrah that were not guilty of this grievous sin. In fact it would seem there were only three, and The Lord brought them out before he destroyed the cities on the dead sea plain.
        Last edited by Lou Newton; June 13, 2016, 03:37 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          How many do you think are here in this land that are "righteous" or not amongst the wicked of our present day? The numbers get fewer and fewer by the day. How far from the line are we?

          Comment


          • #6
            Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah Destroyed

            1 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.
            2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.” “No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”
            3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.
            4 Before they had gone to bed,all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house.
            5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
            6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
            7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing.
            8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
            9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
            10 But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door.
            11 Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.
            12 The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here,
            13 because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”
            14 So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
            15 With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.”
            16 When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them.
            17 As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!”
            18 But Lot said to them, “No, my lords, please!
            19 Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die.
            20 Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.”
            21 He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of.
            22 But flee there quickly, because I cannot do anything until you reach it.” (That is why the town was called Zoar. )
            23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land.
            24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.
            25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, destroying all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land.
            26 But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
            27 Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the LORD.
            28 He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.
            29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
              How many do you think are here in this land that are "righteous" or not amongst the wicked of our present day? The numbers get fewer and fewer by the day. How far from the line are we?
              1 John 1:
              9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

              We are made righteous by The Lord Jesus. Whoever He makes righteous, is righteous indeed.

              All those who truly confess their SIN are as far removed from that line as the east is from the west.

              Comment


              • #8
                Lou, it was a pleasant surprise to check in and find this study. I am enjoying it.

                I love how the Hebrew names add a dimension of meaning to the account.

                Sodom: From an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt (that is, volcanic or bituminous) district; Sedom, a place near the Dead Sea: - Sodom.

                Gammorah: a (ruined) heap; Amorah, a place in Palestine: - Gomorrah. Derived from amar: A primitive root; properly apparently to heap; figuratively to chastise (as if piling blows); specifically to gather grain: - bind sheaves, make merchandise of.

                Zoar: little; Tsoar, a place East of the Jordan: - Zoar. A primitive root; to be small, that is, (figuratively) ignoble: - be brought low, little one, be small.

                Lot and his family fled the former two to seek sanctuary in the latter.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                  Lou, it was a pleasant surprise to check in and find this study. I am enjoying it.

                  I love how the Hebrew names add a dimension of meaning to the account.

                  Sodom: From an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt (that is, volcanic or bituminous) district; Sedom, a place near the Dead Sea: - Sodom.

                  Gammorah: a (ruined) heap; Amorah, a place in Palestine: - Gomorrah. Derived from amar: A primitive root; properly apparently to heap; figuratively to chastise (as if piling blows); specifically to gather grain: - bind sheaves, make merchandise of.

                  Zoar: little; Tsoar, a place East of the Jordan: - Zoar. A primitive root; to be small, that is, (figuratively) ignoble: - be brought low, little one, be small.

                  Lot and his family fled the former two to seek sanctuary in the latter.
                  Thanks for the reply and additional information Barry.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                    Lou, it was a pleasant surprise to check in and find this study. I am enjoying it.

                    I love how the Hebrew names add a dimension of meaning to the account.

                    Sodom: From an unused root meaning to scorch; burnt (that is, volcanic or bituminous) district; Sedom, a place near the Dead Sea: - Sodom.

                    Gammorah: a (ruined) heap; Amorah, a place in Palestine: - Gomorrah. Derived from amar: A primitive root; properly apparently to heap; figuratively to chastise (as if piling blows); specifically to gather grain: - bind sheaves, make merchandise of.

                    Zoar: little; Tsoar, a place East of the Jordan: - Zoar. A primitive root; to be small, that is, (figuratively) ignoble: - be brought low, little one, be small.

                    Lot and his family fled the former two to seek sanctuary in the latter.
                    Which looks to me like a prophecy of men fleeing sin and death (scorched, burnt, ruinous heap: desolation: God's wrath) to find sanctuary in Christ (ignoble: the humble Lamb of God).

                    I find another mention of the same kind of thing in Isaiah 15:

                    Isaiah 15
                    1 The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the night Kir of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence;
                    2 He is gone up to Bajith, and to Dibon, the high places, to weep: Moab shall howl over Nebo, and over Medeba: on all their heads shall be baldness, and every beard cut off.
                    3 In their streets they shall gird themselves with sackcloth: on the tops of their houses, and in their streets, every one shall howl, weeping abundantly.
                    4 And Heshbon shall cry, and Elealeh: their voice shall be heard even unto Jahaz: therefore the armed soldiers of Moab shall cry out; his life shall be grievous unto him.
                    5 My heart shall cry out for Moab; his fugitives shall flee unto Zoar, an heifer of three years old: for by the mounting up of Luhith with weeping shall they go it up; for in the way of Horonaim they shall raise up a cry of destruction.
                    6 For the waters of Nimrim shall be desolate: for the hay is withered away, the grass faileth, there is no green thing.
                    7 Therefore the abundance they have gotten, and that which they have laid up, shall they carry away to the brook of the willows.
                    8 For the cry is gone round about the borders of Moab; the howling thereof unto Eglaim, and the howling thereof unto Beerelim.
                    9 For the waters of Dimon shall be full of blood: for I will bring more upon Dimon, lions upon him that escapeth of Moab, and upon the remnant of the land.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Baruch View Post

                      Which looks to me like a prophecy of men fleeing sin and death (scorched, burnt, ruinous heap: desolation: God's wrath) to find sanctuary in Christ (ignoble: the humble Lamb of God).

                      I find another mention of the same kind of thing in Isaiah 15:

                      Isaiah 15
                      1 The burden of Moab. Because in the night Ar of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence; because in the night Kir of Moab is laid waste, and brought to silence;
                      2 He is gone up to Bajith, and to Dibon, the high places, to weep: Moab shall howl over Nebo, and over Medeba: on all their heads shall be baldness, and every beard cut off.
                      3 In their streets they shall gird themselves with sackcloth: on the tops of their houses, and in their streets, every one shall howl, weeping abundantly.
                      4 And Heshbon shall cry, and Elealeh: their voice shall be heard even unto Jahaz: therefore the armed soldiers of Moab shall cry out; his life shall be grievous unto him.
                      5 My heart shall cry out for Moab; his fugitives shall flee unto Zoar, an heifer of three years old: for by the mounting up of Luhith with weeping shall they go it up; for in the way of Horonaim they shall raise up a cry of destruction.
                      6 For the waters of Nimrim shall be desolate: for the hay is withered away, the grass faileth, there is no green thing.
                      7 Therefore the abundance they have gotten, and that which they have laid up, shall they carry away to the brook of the willows.
                      8 For the cry is gone round about the borders of Moab; the howling thereof unto Eglaim, and the howling thereof unto Beerelim.
                      9 For the waters of Dimon shall be full of blood: for I will bring more upon Dimon, lions upon him that escapeth of Moab, and upon the remnant of the land.
                      Thanks Barry. The Lord is full of mercy and grace. BUT He will destroy those who are lost and will never repent of their sin when they force their sin upon others. God destroyed the whole world once to save 8 that did not partake of joining with demons to save them and those that would be born from them. Everyone that has been born since the flood can be saved only because God destroyed those that were joining with demons.

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                      • #12
                        1 Corinthians 5:9-11 Living Bible (TLB)
                        1 When I wrote to you before I said not to mix with evil people. 10 But when I said that I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who live in sexual sin or are greedy cheats and thieves and idol worshipers. For you can’t live in this world without being with people like that. 11 What I meant was that you are not to keep company with anyone who claims to be a brother Christian but indulges in sexual sins, or is greedy, or is a swindler, or worships idols, or is a drunkard, or abusive. Don’t even eat lunch with such a person.

                        1 Corinthians 6:12-14 Living Bible (TLB)
                        12 I can do anything I want to if Christ has not said no, but some of these things aren’t good for me. Even if I am allowed to do them, I’ll refuse to if I think they might get such a grip on me that I can’t easily stop when I want to. 13 For instance, take the matter of eating. God has given us an appetite for food and stomachs to digest it. But that doesn’t mean we should eat more than we need. Don’t think of eating as important because someday God will do away with both stomachs and food.
                        But sexual sin is never right: our bodies were not made for that but for the Lord, and the Lord wants to fill our bodies with himself. 14 And God is going to raise our bodies from the dead by his power just as he raised up the Lord Jesus Christ.

                        NOTE: We have the example of Sodom and their King, who had seen God and still could not repent of his sin. They went to destruction rather than repent. I would say that qualifies for a behavior that one can not easily stop. Why would anyone indulge in a behavior that might separate them from God.

                        2 Corinthians 12:20-21 New International Version (NIV)
                        20 For I am afraid that when I come I may not find you as I want you to be, and you may not find me as you want me to be. I fear that there may be discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, slander, gossip,arrogance and disorder. 21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

                        Colossians 3:4-6 Living Bible (TLB)
                        4 And when Christ who is our real life comes back again, you will shine with him and share in all his glories.

                        5 Away then with sinful, earthly things; deaden the evil desires lurking within you; have nothing to do with sexual sin, impurity, lust, and shameful desires; don’t worship the good things of life, for that is idolatry. 6 God’s terrible anger is upon those who do such things.

                        Hebrews 12:15-17 Living Bible (TLB)
                        15 Look after each other so that not one of you will fail to find God’s best blessings. Watch out that no bitterness takes root among you, for as it springs up it causes deep trouble, hurting many in their spiritual lives.16 Watch out that no one becomes involved in sexual sin or becomes careless about God as Esau did: he traded his rights as the oldest son for a single meal. 17 And afterwards, when he wanted those rights back again, it was too late, even though he wept bitter tears of repentance. So remember, and be careful.

                        2 Peter 2:1-3 Living Bible (TLB)
                        2 But there were false prophets, too, in those days, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly tell their lies about God, turning against even their Master who bought them; but theirs will be a swift and terrible end. 2 Many will follow their evil teaching that there is nothing wrong with sexual sin. And because of them Christ and his way will be scoffed at.

                        Revelation 2:13-15 Living Bible (TLB)
                        13 I am fully aware that you live in the city where Satan’s throne is, at the center of satanic worship; and yet you have remained loyal to me and refused to deny me even when Antipas, my faithful witness, was martyred among you by Satan’s devotees.

                        14 “And yet I have a few things against you. You tolerate some among you who do as Balaam did when he taught Balak how to ruin the people of Israel by involving them in sexual sin and encouraging them to go to idol feasts. 15 Yes, you have some of these very same followers of Balaam among you!

                        Genesis 2
                        24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

                        This is not a suggestion from God, but it is a command from God

                        God created man and then woman to marry and have children for the kingdom of God.


                        Psalm 127
                        A song of ascents. Of Solomon.

                        1 Unless the Lord builds the house,
                        the builders labor in vain.

                        Unless the Lord watches over the city,
                        the guards stand watch in vain.

                        There is not one place in the Holy Scriptures where God instituted marriage, or sex, between two people of the same sex. God has not built that house and those that labor to build it, labor in vain.
                        Last edited by Lou Newton; June 15, 2016, 09:37 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Does anyone have any comments about any of the posts ?

                          Did anyone see something pointed out that was new to them ?
                          Last edited by Lou Newton; June 17, 2016, 01:01 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Still digesting Lou. Hard to dispute for those wishing to justify their practices.

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                            • #15
                              I agree with Steve. We are witnesses against them. This is made clear in an article I read covering an SBC assembly in Orlando after the shooting. "Worst in US history" if you don't count the federal governmental corporation as a mass murderer. They are using it to the fullest to weaken the church, advance the gay agenda and the police state, and rekindle gun control bills in state legislatures. This is the damage to our nation, and homosexuality is a vehicle. Folks with a mind as Steve describes are applauding "the church" which is being represented in the public eye as seeming to be coming around. In other words, conforming to the image of the world. One of the assembly's speakers is a homosexual and key lobbyist against the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, i.e. lobbying to force homosexuality into incorporated churches. The heresies spoken by so-called pastors against Christ at this event are a livid display of the corruption in the SBC. SBC is just one of the confederations that has embraced the policy of affirming sin to stay relevant with a sinful culture. It is clear in the Bible to all who can see or hear, but the blind lead the blind into the ditch and they cannot hear the warnings from those around them.

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