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  • Olivet discourse

    Interpreting Matthew 24 becomes very controversial because:
    (1) Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

    (2) Matthew 24 is the majority of the Olivet Discourse - one of the five discourses identified in Matthew.

    The Apostle Matthew segregates the ministry of the Lord Jesus into five subject groups. Thus, these subject groups should not be read as a single message but a combination of two or more messages. Because of this compilation by the Apostle Matthew in Matthew 24 there appears to be end of the age teachings about both the destruction of Temple in A.D. 70 and the Second Coming. To sort this out finding the parallels in Mark and Luke is essential.

    (3) Christians fail to recognize apocalyptic language by interpreting it literally.
    A. T. Robertson preceded the harmony of the Gospels for Matthew 24 with this note:
    This great discourse has as its background the death of Christ. Further on as part punishment for this crime lies the destruction of Jerusalem. This catastrophe is itself a symbol of the end of the world and in one sense a coming of Christ in power and judgment. But Christ boldly predicts his own personal return to earth, though the time is not revealed. But he does exhort an expectant attitude toward the promises of his coming and readiness for his return which will be at an unexpected hour. Jesus employs the common Jewish apocalyptic imagery to portray this most difficult subject.

  • #2
    Directions for indentifying parallel passages in Matthew 24
    00a Matthew 24:1-51 cells begin with "a" Matthew 25:31-34 cells begin with "b" 00a Mark 13:1-36 cells begin with "a" 00a Luke 21: 5 - 37 cells begin with "a" Luke 12: 38-46 cells begin with "b" Luke 17: 22-37 cells begin with "c" Note: Luke 19: 43, 44 are cross refrences in column "D'" cells "06a" & "20a". 00a Cross References amd Notes 00a Cross References and Notes
    00b Each "A" column cell is denoted as follows: After the alphabetical letter (a or b) representing the scripture passage the verse number is listed followed by a letter of the alphabet to keep cells in order but the letter may also be separating a verse into parts a, b, c, etc. 00b Each "B" column cell is numbered as follows: After the alphabetical letter “a” representing the scripture passage the verse number is listed followed by a letter of the alphabet to keep cells in order but the letter may also be separating a verse into parts a, b, c, etc. 00b Each "C" column cell is denoted as follows: After the alphabetical letter (a, b, or c) representing the scripture passage the verse number is listed followed by a letter of the alphabet to keep cells in order but the letter may also be separating a verse into parts a, b, c, etc. 00b Each "D" column cell is numbered as follows: Each cell is numbered consecutively starting with 00, 01, 02, etc. followed by a letter of the alphabet to keep cells in order when there is more than one cell with the same number. The same number is used for the cross references to a particular verse so that a number may be 02a, 02b, 02c, 02d, etc. 00b Each "E" column cell is numbered as follows: Each cell is numbered consecutively starting with 00, 01, 02, etc. followed by a letter of the alphabet to keep cells in order when there is more than one cell with the same number. The same number is used for the cross references to a particular verse so that a number may be 02a, 02b, 02c, 02d, etc.

    Comment


    • #3
      Matthew 24:1-9, 14, 10 parallel scriptures
      a01a Matthew 24 And going out, Jesus left the temple. And His disciples came to show Him the buildings of the temple. a01a Mark 13 And as He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, Teacher, Behold! What kind of stones and what kind of buildings! a05a Luke 21 And as some were speaking about the temple, that it had been adorned with beautiful stones and gifts, He said, 01a .
      a02a Matthew 24 But Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There will not at all be left one stone on a stone which in no way will not be thrown down. a02a Mark 13 And answering, Jesus said to him, Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon a stone which shall not be thrown down. a06a Luke 21 As to these things that you see, days will come in which a stone will not be left on a stone, which will not be thrown down. 02a
      Luke 19: 43, 44 For the days will come on you, and ones hostile to you will raise up a rampart to you and will surround you and will keep you in on all sides, 44 and will tear you down, and your children in you, and will not leave a stone on a stone, because you did not know the time of your visitation.. Jeremiah 26:18 Micah the Morasthite prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah, and spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, So says Jehovah of hosts: Zion shall be plowed like a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house like the high places of a forest.
      Micah 3:12 Therefore, on account of you, Zion shall be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house into high places of the forest.
      a03b Matthew 24 Tell us, when will these things be? And, What is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age? (The disciples are asking three questions.) a04a Mark 13 Tell us when these things shall be? And what is the sign when all these things are about to be done? (The disciples are asking two questions.) a07a Luke 21 And they asked Him, saying, Teacher, then when will these things be? And what will be the sign when these things are about to happen? (The disciples are asking two questions.) 04a MOVE 1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2 But concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need for it to be written. 2 For you yourselves know accurately that the day of the Lord, as a thief in the night, so it comes.
      Hebrews 9:26 for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
      a04a Matthew 24 And answering, Jesus said to them, See that not any leads you astray. a05a Mark 13 And answering, Jesus began to say to them, Be careful that no one lead you astray. a08a Luke 21 And He said, Watch that you not be led astray. 05a Acts 5:36,37 For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming himself to be somebody, to whom was joined a number of men, about four hundred, who was done away, and all, as many as obeyed him, were dispersed and came to nothing. After this, Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the Registration. And he drew considerable people after him. Yet that one perished, and all were scattered, as many as obeyed him.
      Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
      1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
      a04b Matthew 24 spacer a05b Mark 13 spacer a08b Luke 21 spacer 05b (Continuing 05a above) Jeremiah 29: 8 For so says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your fortune-tellers in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you dream.
      a05a Matthew 24 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ. And they will cause many to be led astray. a06a Mark 13 For many will come in My name, saying, I AM! And they will lead many astray. a08c Luke 21 For many will come on My name, saying, I AM! Also, The time has come! (You is implied) Do not go after them. 06a Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets will be raised and will cause many to err.
      Matthew 24:23-24 23 Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ! Or, Here! Do not believe.
      24 For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
      See note on Simon Magus for the Acts 8:9-24 cross reference to Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22, & Luke 21:24
      a05b Matthew 24 spacer a06b Mark 13 spacer a08d Luke 21 spacer 06b (continuing 06a above) 1 John 2:18 Little children, it is a last hour, and as you heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have risen up, from which you know that it is a last hour. I John 4:3 And every spirit which does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God; and this is the antichrist which you heard is coming, and now is already in the world.
      Jeremiah 29: 8 For so says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your fortune-tellers in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you dream.
      a06a Matthew 24 But you are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See, do not be terrified. For all things must take place, but the end is not yet. a07a Mark 13 But when you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be disturbed, for it must occur; but the end is not yet. a09a Luke 21 And when you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be afraid. For these things must first occur, but the end is not at once. 07a Revelation 6:3,4 And when He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come and see. And another horse went out, red. And it was given to the one sitting on it to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another. And a great sword was given to him. Isaiah 19:2 And I will stir up Egyptians against Egyptians; and they each man shall fight against his brother; and each against his neighbor; city against city, kingdom against kingdom.
      a07a Matthew 24 For nation will be raised against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; a08a Mark 13 For nation will be raised against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. a10a Luke 21 Then He said to them, Nation will be lifted up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 08a Revelation 6:3, 4 And when He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come and see.
      4 And another horse went out, red. And it was given to the one sitting on it to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another. And a great sword was given to him.
      Revelation 12:17 17 And the dragon was enraged over the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the commandments of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ.
      Isaiah 19:2 And I will stir up Egyptians against Egyptians; and they each man shall fight against his brother; and each against his neighbor; city against city, kingdom against kingdom.
      a07b Matthew 24 and there will be famines and plagues and earthquakes against many places. a08b Mark 13 And there shall be earthquakes in many places. And there shall be famines and troubles. a11a Luke 21 Also there will be great earthquakes from place to place, and famines, and plagues. 09a Acts 11:28 And one of them named Agabus rising up, he signified through the Spirit that a great famine was about to be over all the habitable earth, which also happened on Claudius Caesar's time. Rev. 6:5,6 And when He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold, a black horse, and the one sitting on it having a balance in his hand.
      6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A choenix of wheat for a denarius, and three choenixes of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.
      a07c Matthew 24 spacer a08c Mark 13 spacer a11b Luke 21 And also there will be terrors and great signs from Heaven. 10a Matthew 24:29 And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
      Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that affliction, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light;
      25 and the stars of the heaven will be falling, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
      a08a Matthew 24 But all these are a beginning of throes. a08d Mark 13 These things are the beginnings of anguishes. a11c Luke 21 spacer 11a
      a09a Matthew 24 Then they will deliver you up to affliction, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. a09a Mark 13 But you yourselves be careful, for they will deliver you up to sanhedrins and to synagogues. You will be beaten, and you will be led before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. a12a Luke 21 But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you, and will persecute you, delivering you into the synagogues and prisons, being led away before kings and governors on account of My name. 12a
      Matthew 10: 17- 20 But beware of men. For they will betray you to Sanhedrins, and they will flog you in their synagogues. And also you will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them and to the nations. But when they deliver you up, do not be anxious how or what you should say, for it is given to you in that hour what you should say. For you are not the ones speaking, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.
      a09b Matthew 24 spacer a9b Mark 13 spacer a12b Luke 21 spacer 12b (continuing 12a above) John 15:18 -20 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it has hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the Word which I said to you, A slave is not greater than his lord. If they persecuted Me, they also will persecute you. If they kept My Word, they also will keep yours. John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogue, but an hour is coming that everyone killing you will think to bear a service before God.
      a09c Matthew 24 spacer a09c Mark 13 spacer a12c Luke 21 spacer 12c (continuing 12b above) Acts 4: 1-3 And as they were speaking to the people, the priests, and the temple commander, and the Sadducees stood near them, being distressed because they taught the people and announced in Jesus the resurrection from the dead. And they laid hands on them, and put them into custody until the morrow, for it was already evening.
      Revelation 2:10 Do not at all fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw you into prison, so that you may be tried; and you will have affliction ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
      a09d Matthew 24 spacer a09d Mark 13 spacer a13a Luke 21 But it will return to you for a testimony. 13a Philippians 1:12-14, 29 12 ¶ But I want you to know, brothers, that the things concerning me have more fully come to the advancement of the gospel,
      13 so that in all the praetorium, and to all the rest, my bonds have become clearly revealed to be in Christ.
      14 And the most of the brothers in the Lord, being confident in my bonds, more exceedingly dare to speak the Word fearlessly. 29 because it was granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer on His behalf,
      a14c Matthew 24 spacer a11a Mark 13 But whenever they lead you away, delivering you, do not be anxious beforehand, what you should say, nor meditate. a14a Luke 21 Then put into your hearts not to premeditate to make a defense. 21a
      a14d Matthew 24 spacer a11b Mark 13 But whatever may be given to you in that hour, speak that. For you are not those speaking, but the Holy Spirit. a15a Luke 21 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all those opposing you will not be able to withstand or contradict. 22a
      a10a Matthew 24 And then many will be offended, and they will deliver up one another and will hate one another. a12a Mark 13 And a brother will deliver up a brother to death, and a father the child. And children will rise up on parents and will put them to death. a16a Luke 21 But you will be betrayed also by parents, and brothers, and relatives, and friends. And they will put some of you to death. 14a Matthew 10:21, 22 But brother will betray brother to death, and the father his child. And children will rise up against parents and will put them to death. 22 And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but the one enduring to the end shall be kept safe
      Matthew 11:6 And blessed is the one, whoever shall not be offended in Me.
      Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in Him. But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honor, except in his own fatherland, and in his own house.
      I Timothy 1:15 Faithful is the Word and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
      Last edited by glen smith; August 9th, 2017, 12:57 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Matthew 24:11-16, 19-20 parallel scriptures
        a11a Matthew 24 And many false prophets will be raised and will cause many to err. a12b Mark 13 spacer a16b Luke 21 spacer 15a Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 1 Tim. 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, cleaving to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons 2 Pe. 2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
        a12a Matthew 24 And because lawlessness shall have been multiplied, the love of the many will grow cold. a12c Mark13 spacer a16c Luke 21 spacer 16a
        a12b Matthew 24 spacer a13a Mark 13 And you will be hated by all on account of My name. a17a Luke 21 And you will be hated by all because of My name. 17a
        a12c Matthew 24 spacer a13b Mark 13 spacer a18a Luke 21 And a hair of your head shall in no way perish. 18a
        a13a Matthew 24 But the one who endures to the end, that one will be kept safe. a13c Mark 13 But the one enduring to the end, that one will be kept safe. a19a Luke 21 By your patience you will gain your souls. 19a Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all on account of My name, but the one enduring to the end shall be kept safe.
        Hebrews 3:6 but Christ as Son over His house, whose house we are, if truly we hold fast the boldness and rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
        Hebrews 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if truly we hold the beginning of the assurance firm to the end;
        a14a Matthew 24 And this gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the earth for a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end. a10a Mark 13 And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all the nations. a19b Luke 21 spacer 20a Matthew 28:19, 20 Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things, whatever I commanded you. And, behold, I am with you all the days until the completion of the age. Amen.
        Colossians 1:5, 6 because of the hope being laid up for you in Heaven, which you heard before in the Word of the truth of the gospel, coming to you, as also in all the world, and it is bearing fruit even also among you, from the day in which you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
        a14b Matthew 24 spacer a10bMark spacer a19c Luke 21 spacer 20b (continuing 20a above) Colossians 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith grounded and settled and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard proclaimed in all the creation under Heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister, Hebrews 9:26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
        a15a Matthew 24 Then when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (the one reading, let him understand), a14a Mark 13 But when you see "the abomination of desolation," the one spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (he reading, let him understand), a20a Luke 21 And when you see Jerusalem being encircled by armies, then recognize that its destruction has come near. 23a Luke 19: 43, 44 For the days will come on you, and ones hostile to you will raise up a rampart to you and will surround you and will keep you in on all sides, 44 and will tear you down, and your children in you, and will not leave a stone on a stone, because you did not know the time of your visitation. (Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that one who spoke, Until when is the vision, the regular sacrifice and the desolating transgression, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled?
        Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.
        a15b Matthew 24 spacer a14b Mark 13 spacer a20b Like 21 (Luke addressed his record to a non Jewish reader who would not have any idea what the term "the abomination of desolation" would mean. Thus, he explains the term where Matthew and Mark write for the reader to understand.) 23b (continuing 23a above) Daniel 11:31 And forces will stand away from him, and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress. And they shall remove the regular sacrifice, and they will place the abomination that desolates.
        Daniel 12:11 And from the time the regular sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that desolates set up, a thousand, two hundred and ninety days shall occur.
        a16a Matthew 24 then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; a14c Mark 13 then let those in Judea flee into the mountains. a21a Luke 21 Then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; and those in its midst, let them go out. And those in the open spaces, let them not go into her. 24a Eusebius, the early forth century Christian historian, said the instructions to flee Jerusalem were an oracle from Christ. It is unclear if he meant this passage in Luke or if a prophet delivered another word from Christ. Because of the many times Jesus warned the disciples about this event, it must have been paramount with Jesus for believers to escape the Judgement. Accordingly, it does not seem fanciful for an additional and timely word from Jesus might have been sent to instruct the believers. Eusebius wrote that every Christian escaped Jerusalem and went to Pella where they received refuge by the king who welcomed the Christians. Who was this king? This king kindly disposed to Christians was King Agrippa before whom Paul had presented his defense and the gospel in Acts 26.
        a16b Matthew 24 The context of the several passages make it certain that one and the same period of unprecedented calamity is referred to in the three passages. Matthew 24:21 For there will be great affliction or tribulation, such as has not happened from the a14d Mark 13 The context of the several passages make it certain that one and the same period of unprecedented calamity is referred to in the three passages. Mark 13:19 for there will be affliction in those days, such as has not been the like from the beginning of creation which God a22a Luke 21 For these are days of vengeance when all things that have been written are to be fulfilled. 25a
        Isaiah 61:1-11 The Spirit of the Lord Jehovah is on Me, because Jehovah has anointed Me to preach the gospel to the meek. He has sent Me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to captives, and complete opening to the bound ones; 2 to proclaim the acceptable year of Jehovah, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3 to appoint to those who mourn in Zion, to give them beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of the spirit of infirmity, so that one calls them trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, in order to beautify Himself. 4 And they shall build old ruins; they shall raise up former desolations; and they shall restore the waste cities, ruins of generations and generations.
        Luke's account "the days of vengeance," wherein there should be "great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people," is the same period that Mark designates "the days of affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation . . . unto this time" (Mark 13:19) and that is designated by Matthew the "great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time" (Mat. 24:21). The context of the several passages makes it certain that one and the same period of unprecedented calamity is referred to in the three passages.
        a16c Matthew 24 continuing Matthew 24:21 beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. a14e Mark 13 continuing Mark 13:19 created until now, and never will be. a22b Luke 21 spacer 25b (Continuing 25a above) Isaiah 61:1-11 cont. 5 And foreigners shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of strangers shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. 6 But you shall be called, Priests of Jehovah; it will be said of you, Ministers of our God. You shall eat the wealth of the nations, and you shall revel in their glory. 7 Instead of your shame and disgrace, double. They rejoice in their portion; for they shall possess a second time in their land; everlasting joy shall be theirs. 8 For I, Jehovah, love judgment, hating plunder in burnt offering. And I will give their work in truth; and I will cut an everlasting covenant for them. 9 And their seed shall be known among the nations, and their offspring among the peoples; all who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed that Jehovah has blessed.
        a16d Matthew 24 spacer a14f Mark 13 spacer a22c Luke 21 spacer 25c (continuing 25b above) Isaiah 61:1-11 cont. 10 Rejoicing I will rejoice in Jehovah. My soul shall be joyful in my God. For He clothed me with garments of salvation; He put on me the robe of righteousness, even as a bridegroom dons as a priest his head-dress, and as a bride wears her ornaments. 11 For as the earth comes out with her buds, and as a garden causes that which is sown to grow, so the Lord Jehovah will make righteousness and praise to grow before all the nations.
        Isaiah 34: 8 For the day of vengeance is to Jehovah, the year of repayments for Zion's cause.
        a19a Matthew 24 But woe to the ones having a child in womb, and to those suckling in those days! a17a Mark 13 But woe to those holding a babe in womb, and to those giving suck in those days! a23a Luke 21 But woe to the pregnant women, and the ones suckling in those days; for great distress will be on the earth and wrath on this people. 32a Luke 23: 29 For behold, days will come in which they will say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that did not bear, and breasts that did not suckle.
        a20a Matthew 24 And pray that your flight will not occur in winter nor in a sabbath. a18a Mark 13 And pray that your flight will not be in winter; a23b Luke 21 spacer 33a
        a20b Matthew 24 spacer a18b Mark 13 spacer a24a Luke 21 And they will fall by the mouth of the sword and will be led captive to all the nations. And Jerusalem will be trodden down by nations, until the times of the nations are fulfilled. 34a
        Romans 11: 25 For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be wise within yourselves, that hardness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations comes in;
        Isaiah 63:18 For a little while Your holy people possessed it. Our enemies have trampled Your sanctuary.
        Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a certain holy one speaking, and another holy one said to that one who spoke, Until when is the vision, the regular sacrifice and the desolating transgression, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled?
        a20c Matthew 24 spacer a18c Mark 13 spacer a24b Luke 21 spacer 34b (Continuing 31a above)
        Daniel 9:27And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week. And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator.
        Daniel 12:7And I heard the man clothed in linen, who was on the waters of the river, when he held up his right and his left hand to the heavens and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and a half. And when they have made an end of scattering the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
        Revelation 11:2 And cast aside the outside court of the temple, and do not measure it. For it was given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city forty two months.
        Last edited by glen smith; August 9th, 2017, 12:56 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Matthew 24:21-25, 29-30 parallel scriptures
          a21a Matthew 24 For there will be great affliction or tribulation, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. a19a Mark 13 for there will be affliction in those days, such as has not been the like from the beginning of creation which God created until now, and never will be. a24c Luke 21 The context of the several passages make it certain that one and the same period of unprecedented calamity is referred to in the three passages. Luke 21:22 For these are days of vengeance when all things that have been written are to be fulfilled. 35a Dan. 9:26 And after sixty two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people of a coming ruler shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, and war shall be until the end.
          Daniel 12:1 And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book.
          a21b matthew 24 spacer a19b Mark 13 spacer a24d Luke 21 spacer 35b (continuing 32a above) Joel 2:1, 2 Blow a ram's horn in Zion, and shout an alarm in My holy mountain. Let all those living in the land tremble. For the day of Jehovah approaches; it is near, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as the dawn spread out on the mountains, a great and a strong people. There has never been the like, nor shall there ever be again to the years of many generations;
          a22a Matthew 24 And except those days were shortened, not any flesh would be saved. But on account of the elect, those days will be shortened. a20a Mark 13 And if the Lord had not shortened the days, not any flesh would be saved; but because of the elect whom He chose, He has shortened the days. a24e Luke 21 spacer 36a Luke 18:7 and will God not at all execute the avengement of His elect, those crying to Him day and night, also having been long-suffering (delay long) over them?
          a23a Matthew 24 Then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ! Or, Here! (You is implied.) Do not believe. a21a Mark 13 And then if anyone says to you, Behold, here is the Christ! Or, Behold, there! You shall not believe. a24f Luke 21 spacer 37a Matthew 24:26 Then if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness; do not go out. Behold, He is in the inner rooms; do not believe. Luke 17:23 And they will say to you, Lo, here! Or, Lo, there! Do not go away, nor follow.
          a24a Matthew 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise up. And they will give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. a22a Mark 13 For false christs and false prophets will be raised, and they will give miraculous signs and wonders in order to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. a24g Luke 21 spacer 38a Matthew 7:15 But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves.
          Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets will be raised and will cause many to err.
          John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, Unless you see miraculous signs and wonders, you will not at all believe.
          a24b Matthew 24 spacer a22b Mark 13 spacer a24h Luke 21 spacer 38b (continuing 38a above) 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 For the mystery of lawlessness already is working, only he is holding back now, until it comes out of the midst.
          8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence. Isa. 11:4
          9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,
          a24c Matthew 24 spacer a22c Mark 13 spacer a24i Luke 21 spacer 38c (continuing 38b above) Acts 8:9-24 (NOTE) Simon Magus, sorcerer of great repute for his magical arts among the Samaritans - He afterwards became a professed convert to the faith under the preaching of Philip the deacon and evangelist (Acts 8: 12, 13). His profession was, however, soon found to be hollow. His conduct called forth from Peter a stern rebuke (Acts 8:18 - 23). The term "Simony," as denoting the purchase for money of spiritual offices, is derived from him. History provides that in Rome he is declared the Messiah because of performing many miracles.
          I John 1:4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
          a25a Matthew 24 Behold, I tell you beforehand. a23a Mark 13 But you be careful. Behold, I have foretold you all things. a24j Luke 21 spacer 39a
          a29a Matthew 24 And immediately after the affliction of those days the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light, a24a Mark 13 But in those days, after that affliction, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give her light; a25a Luke 21 And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars. And on the earth will be anxiety of nations with bewilderment, roaring of sea and of surf, 45a Matthew 24:21 For there will be great affliction, such as has not happened from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
          Luke 21:11b And also there will be terrors and great signs from Heaven. Acts 2:20 The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the" "coming of the great and glorious" "day of the Lord."
          Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel trumpeted. And the third part of the sun, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars, was struck, that the third part of them might be darkened, and the third part of the day might not appear; and in the same way the night.
          a29b Matthew 24 spacer a24b Mark 13 spacer a25b Luke 21 spacer 45b (continuing 45a above) Revelation 6:12-17 12 And I saw when He opened the sixth seal. And behold, a great earthquake occurred. And the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair; and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of the heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree being shaken by a great wind casts its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed like a scroll being rolled up. And every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great ones, and the rich ones, and the commanders, and the powerful ones, and every slave, and every freeman hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains. 16 And "they said to the mountains" and to the rocks, "Fall on us," and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, Hosea 10:8 17 because the great day of His wrath has come; and who is able to stand?
          a29c Matthew 24 spacer a24c Mark 13 spacer a25c Luke 21 spacer 45c (continuing 45b above) Joel 2:10-11, 31 The earth shall quake before them, the heavens shall shake. The sun and moon shall grow dark, and the stars shall gather in their light. 11 And Jehovah shall give His voice before His army, for His camp is very great. For he who does His Word is strong. For the day of Jehovah is very great and terrifying, and who can endure it? 31 The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the coming of the great and awesome day of Jehovah. Joel 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall gather in their light.
          a29d Matthew 24 spacer a24d Mark 13 spacer a25d Luke 21 spacer 45d (continuing 45c above) Amos 5:20 20 Shall not the day of Jehovah be darkness, and not light; even very dark, and not any brightness in it?
          Amos 8:9 And it shall be in that day, declares the Lord Jehovah, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in light of the day.
          a29e Matthew 24 spacer a24e Mark 13 spacer a25e Luke 21 spacer 45e (continuing 45d above) Zephaniah 1:14-18 The great day of Jehovah is near; it is near and rushing greatly, the sound of the day of Jehovah. The mighty man shall cry out bitterly there. 15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of distress and pressure, a day of waste and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness, 16 a day of the ram's horn and alarm against the fortified cities, and against the high towers. 17 And I will bring distress to men, and they shall walk like the blind, because they have sinned against Jehovah. And their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh like dung.18 Their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of Jehovah. But all the earth shall be consumed by the fire of His jealousy. For He shall make a complete, yea, a speedy end of all those living in the land.
          a29f Matthew 24 and the stars will fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. a25a Mark 13 and the stars of the heaven will be falling, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. a26a Luke 21 men fainting from fear, and expectation of the things coming on the earth. For the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 46a
          a30a Matthew 24 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the land will wail. And they (not you because you will have fled Jerusalem or will have been martyred) will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and much glory. Daniel 7:13 a26a Mark 13 And then they (not you because you will have fled Jerusalem or will have been martyred) will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with much power and glory. Daniel 7:13 a27a Luke 21 And then they (not you) will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and much glory. Dan. 7:13 47a Matthew 16:27, 28 For the Son of Man is about to come with His angels in the glory of His Father. And then "He will give reward to each according to his practice." LXX-Psa. 61:13; Pro. 24:12; MT-Psa. 62:12 28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who will not taste of death, never, until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.
          Matthew 24:3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And, What is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?
          Matthew 24:37-39 But as the days of Noah, so also will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as they were in the days before the flood: eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah went into
          a30b Matthew 24 In most of the scriptures from Matthew 24:1 through 29 Jesus has been using the personal pronoun "you" to indicate He is describing things that will happen to the disciples. a26b Mark 13 In most of the scriptures from Mark 13:1 through 25 Jesus has been using the personal pronoun "you" to indicate He is describing things that will happen to the disciples. a27b Luke 21 In most of the scriptures from Luke 21:5 through 26 Jesus has been using the personal pronoun "you" to indicate He is describing things that will happen to the disciples. 47b (continuing 47a above) Matthew 24:37-39 continued - the ark. 39 And they did not know until the flood came and took all away. So also will be the coming of the Son of Man. Hebrews 9:26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
          Daniel 7:13 I was looking in the night visions. And behold! One like the Son of Man came with the clouds of the heavens. And He came to the Ancient of Days. And they brought Him near before Him.
          Mark 13:14 But when you see "the abomination of desolation," the one spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (he reading, let him understand), then let those in Judea flee into the mountains. Dan. 11:31; 12:11
          a30c Matthew 24 With verse 30 He is describing something "they" will see, referring to some others as differentiated from the disciples. a26c Mark 13 With verse 26 He is describing something "they" will see, referring to some others as differentiated from the disciples. a27c Luke 21 With verse 27 He is describing something "they" will see, referring to some others as differentiated from the disciples. 47c (continuing 47b above) Revelation 1:7 "Behold, He comes with the clouds," and "every eye will see Him, and the ones who pierced" Him, and all the tribes of the earth "will wail on account of Him." Yes, Amen. Dan. 7:13; Zech. 12:10
          Zechariah 12:12 And the land shall mourn, each family apart: the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; Mark 9:1 And He said to them, Truly I say to you, There are some of those standing here who in no way shall taste of death until they see the kingdom of God coming in power.
          Luke 9: 27 But truly I say to you, There are some of those standing here who in no way shall taste of death until they see the kingdom of God.
          Last edited by glen smith; August 9th, 2017, 12:54 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Matthew 24:31-36 parallel scripture
            a31a Matthew 24 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens to their ends. a27a Mark 13 And then He will send His angels and will gather His elect from the four winds, from the end of earth to the end of heaven. a27d Luke 21 spacer 48a Matthew 13:41, 42 The Son of man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, 42 and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 24:51). 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52 Behold, I speak a mystery to you; we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed; 52 in a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet. For a trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.
            a31b Matthew 24 spacer a27b Mark 13 spacer a27e Luke 21 spacer 48b (continuing 48a above) 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord. Isaiah 27:12, 13 And it shall be, in that day the LORD shall thresh from the stream of the river Euphrates to the torrent of Egypt, and you shall be gathered one by one, O sons of Israel. 13 And it shall be, in that day the great ram's horn shall be blown, and those perishing in the land of Assyria shall come, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt shall come and shall worship the LORD in the holy mountain at Jerusalem.
            a31c Matthew 24 spacer a27c Mark 13 spacer a27f Luke 21 spacer 48c (continuing 48b above) Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth so that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
            a31d Matthew 24 spacer a27d Mark 13 spacer a28a Luke 21 But these things beginning to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near. 49a Luke 18:7 and will God not at all execute the avengement of His elect, those crying to Him day and night, also having been long-suffering over them?
            a32a Matthew 24 But (you is implied) learn the parable of the fig tree: a28a Mark 13 And from the fig tree (you is implied) learn the parable: a29a Luke 21 And He spoke a parable to them: You see the fig tree and all the trees. 50a
            a32b Matthew 24 When its branch becomes tender and it puts out leaves, you know that the summer is near; a28b Mark 13 When its branch becomes tender and puts out leaves, you know the summer is near. a30a Luke 21 Now when they sprout leaves, seeing it, you will know from yourselves that now the summer is near. 51a James 5:9 Do not grudge against one another, brothers, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge stands before the door.
            a33a Matthew 24 so also you, when you see all these things, know that it is near at the doors. a29a Mark 13 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near, at the doors. a31a Luke 21 So also when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 52a Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings, the God of Heaven shall set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed. And the kingdom shall not be left to other people. It shall break in pieces and destroy all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven has drawn near. Matthew 10:7 And going on, proclaim, saying, The kingdom of Heaven has drawn near. Mark 1:15 and saying, The time has been fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent and believe in the gospel.
            a34a Matthew 24 Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things have occurred. a30a Mark 13 Truly I say to you, Not at all will this generation pass away until all these things occur. a32a Luke 21 Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things shall occur. 53a Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into another; for truly I say to you, In no way shall you have finished the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.
            Matthew 16:28 Truly I say to you, There are some standing here who will not taste of death, never, until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom. Matthew 23:36 Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation. Luke 11:50 so that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
            a35a Matthew 24 The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never! a31a Mark 13 The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never! a33a Luke 21 The heaven and the earth will pass away, but My Words will not pass away, never! 54a Matthew 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.
            Luke 16:17 But it is easier for the heaven and the earth to pass away than one point of the Law to fail. Hebrews 1:11 They will vanish away, but You will continue; and they will all become old, like a garment; Psalms 102:26 They shall perish, but You shall endure; yea, all of them shall wear out like a garment; You shall change them like clothing, and they shall be changed.
            a35b Matthew 24 spacer a31b Mark 13 spacer a33b Luke 21 spacer 54b (continuing 54a above) Isaiah 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look to the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, and the earth shall wear out like a garment; and those living in it shall die in the same way, but My salvation shall be forever, and My righteousness shall not be broken. Isaiah 40:8 The grass withers; the flower fades; but the Word of our God shall rise forever.
            a36a Matthew 24 But as to that day and that hour, no one knows, neither the angels of Heaven, except My Father only. a32a Mark 13 But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father. a33c Luke 21 spacer 55a Acts 1:6-7 6 Then, indeed, coming together they questioned Him, saying, Lord, do You restore the kingdom to Israel at this time? 7 And He said to them, It is not yours to know times or seasons which the Father placed in His own authority;
            Hebrews 9:26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Zechariah 14:7 And it will be one day which shall be known to Jehovah; not day and not night, but it will be, there will be light at evening time.
            Last edited by glen smith; August 9th, 2017, 12:48 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by glen smith View Post
              Interpreting Matthew 24 becomes very controversial because:
              (1) Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

              (2) Matthew 24 is the majority of the Olivet Discourse - one of the five discourses identified in Matthew.

              The Apostle Matthew segregates the ministry of the Lord Jesus into five subject groups. Thus, these subject groups should not be read as a single message but a combination of two or more messages. Because of this compilation by the Apostle Matthew in Matthew 24 there appears to be end of the age teachings about both the destruction of Temple in A.D. 70 and the Second Coming. To sort this out finding the parallels in Mark and Luke is essential.

              (3) Christians fail to recognize apocalyptic language by interpreting it literally.
              A. T. Robertson preceded the harmony of the Gospels for Matthew 24 with this note:
              This great discourse has as its background the death of Christ. Further on as part punishment for this crime lies the destruction of Jerusalem. This catastrophe is itself a symbol of the end of the world and in one sense a coming of Christ in power and judgment. But Christ boldly predicts his own personal return to earth, though the time is not revealed. But he does exhort an expectant attitude toward the promises of his coming and readiness for his return which will be at an unexpected hour. Jesus employs the common Jewish apocalyptic imagery to portray this most difficult subject.
              You write: Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

              Glen, this is an assumption that has no valid reason to be stated.

              I had no preconceived ideas about this chapter and had never even heard of this discourse before I read it the first time.

              Your statement is preconceived dear friend.

              I had no training or teaching and have never even read the opinions of any mere man about this chapter. I seek and ask the very best Teacher that there is, The Holy Spirit, and ask Him about it.

              I simply read the simple words of our dear Lord and believe what He said.

              No one has yet answered my questions about this discourse that I asked in the other thread. I can only wonder if you can answer them.

              You write:
              This catastrophe is itself a symbol of the end of the world and in one sense a coming of Christ in power and judgment.
              Jesus plainly is NOT speaking of a spiritual coming in the end of the passage. He plainly says that no one has to wonder when or if this has taken place because everyone in the whole world will see it take place. Certainly you do not claim that the whole world seen the destruction of Jerusalem.

              Are you seriously claiming that the following passage is about the destruction of Jerusalem:

              9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

              “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me - Jesus is NOT talking to the Jews here, but to His followers.

              And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - surely no one would claim this statement is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

              15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

              Notice Jesus is still talking to His followers here, not the Jews. Anyone who thinks the destruction of Jerusalem is the worse tribulation that ever took place has not studied history much. It was terrible, but 6 million Jews alone were killed by Hitler and millions more by Stalin and then millions more by RCC, and then millions more by Islam.

              But this is NOT about the Jews, but Christians. Certainly the distress of the flood that killed every human except 8 was far worse than 70 AD.

              I do not need the interpretation of any mere man to understand the simple words of Jesus.

              You can believe what you like, but to say no one has any room to believe different is simply not a valid statement.

              You can state your reasons why you believe what you believe, but I do not think it kind to imply that anyone who disagrees has preconceived beliefs before they even read this chapter.
              Last edited by Lou Newton; August 9th, 2017, 12:53 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Matthew 3a and Parallels
                a03a Matthew 24 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, a03a Mark 13 And as He was sitting in the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew questioned Him privately: a37a Luke 21 And in the days, He was teaching in the temple. And going out in the nights, He lodged in the Mount of Olives. 03a
                Luke 22:39 And going out, according to His custom, He went to the Mount of Olives. And His disciples also followed Him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                  I do not need the interpretation of any mere man to understand the simple words of Jesus.
                  I admit I have a very hard time accepting this statement, brother. I am a mere man. You solicit me for my interpretations. If my words were persuasive and in agreement with the scriptures, you would consider them fairly, even if they did not echo your own. I contend the same for those who came before us. You read Hugh Ross and John Bunyan, yet you spurn other generations. Generally speaking, our generation does not have a better revelation; perhaps our greatest distinction is we are more removed from the Cross, and the outpouring of the Spirit. We read scripture written in terms of ancient cultures, without studying those cultures; if anything we have a greater handicap (to God's glory, I should not neglect to say). There is much more in the Early Church's and the Reformers' writings than just opinion. Those who had light, it was a great light. There are historical facts and anecdotes that we lack, which informed their studies and prayers and writings, and rare pearls of God-given wisdom for us members of the universal body of Christ to inherit. They wrestled with all the known heresies. They didn't live without God. To ignore their revelations, which are more precious than gold, is at best to reinvent and retread the same ground; at worst to float adrift, forming our doctrines in a cloister as it were, without testing our thoughts against theirs. Iron sharpens iron.

                  Notice Jesus is till talking to His followers here, not the Jews. Anyone who thinks the destruction of Jerusalem is the worse tribulation that ever took place has not studied history much. It was terrible, but 6 million Jews alone were killed by Hitler and millions more by Stalin and then millions more by RCC, and then millions more by Islam.
                  The 6 million figure is disproven by discovered records, yet that number endures in the cultural psyche. It is now officially down to 1.1 million. I could wax controversial, but let it suffice to say it is plain that we're not told the truth about much of anything regarding WWII. What the RCC did was on an equal scale, a true genocide of Christians. Stalin exceeded them sixty-fold (if I recall correctly), an even greater persecution of Christians. I don't have a sense for Islam's body count, but I would guess it doesn't beat Russia's.

                  Yet all these died in an age of hope preached to the Gentiles.

                  70 AD Jerusalem, except for a remnant, died under a divine curse. Literally God's wrath. All of True Israel (those in Christ) were saved.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Baruch View Post

                    I admit I have a very hard time accepting this statement, brother. I am a mere man. You solicit me for my interpretations. If my words were persuasive and in agreement with the scriptures, you would consider them fairly, even if they did not echo your own. I contend the same for those who came before us. You read Hugh Ross and John Bunyan, yet you spurn other generations. Generally speaking, our generation does not have a better revelation; perhaps our greatest distinction is we are more removed from the Cross, and the outpouring of the Spirit. We read scripture written in terms of ancient cultures, without studying those cultures; if anything we have a greater handicap (to God's glory, I should not neglect to say). There is much more in the Early Church's and the Reformers' writings than just opinion. Those who had light, it was a great light. There are historical facts and anecdotes that we lack, which informed their studies and prayers and writings, and rare pearls of God-given wisdom for us members of the universal body of Christ to inherit. They wrestled with all the known heresies. They didn't live without God. To ignore their revelations, which are more precious than gold, is at best to reinvent and retread the same ground; at worst to float adrift, forming our doctrines in a cloister as it were, without testing our thoughts against theirs. Iron sharpens iron.



                    The 6 million figure is disproven by discovered records, yet that number endures in the cultural psyche. It is now officially down to 1.1 million. I could wax controversial, but let it suffice to say it is plain that we're not told the truth about much of anything regarding WWII. What the RCC did was on an equal scale, a true genocide of Christians. Stalin exceeded them sixty-fold (if I recall correctly), an even greater persecution of Christians. I don't have a sense for Islam's body count, but I would guess it doesn't beat Russia's.

                    Yet all these died in an age of hope preached to the Gentiles.

                    70 AD Jerusalem, except for a remnant, died under a divine curse. Literally God's wrath. All of True Israel (those in Christ) were saved.
                    Hi Barry,

                    I apologize for my poor wording of this statement: I do not need the interpretation of any mere man to understand the simple words of Jesus.

                    Maybe it would be better said by saying we should not seek the opinions of any man, but we should seek The Holy Spirit and let Him lead us to the truth. It is good to seek the counsel of many bothers as long as we are looking to The Holy Spirit and not to men. The Holy Spirit may choose to speak through a bother of today or of long ago. I surely respect your opinion, Barry and I do seek it in all cases.

                    But I do disagree that I only see what I see because I had preconceived ideas.

                    The only preconceived idea I can remember having about The Bible was that the world was created in six 24 hour days. I sure there were others. but I was not from a church background and did not have many beliefs about the Bible. In fact I did not even know if it was from God or not. I also did not know that Jesus was God when I started to read it.

                    The 6 million figure is disproven by discovered records, yet that number endures in the cultural psyche. It is now officially down to 1.1 million. I could wax controversial, but let it suffice to say it is plain that we're not told the truth about much of anything regarding WWII. What the RCC did was on an equal scale, a true genocide of Christians. Stalin exceeded them sixty-fold (if I recall correctly), an even greater persecution of Christians. I don't have a sense for Islam's body count, but I would guess it doesn't beat Russia's.
                    What ever numbers are true, we will probably not know for sure until The Lord returns. But if we take the figures you quote, these numbers are far worse than the destruction of Jerusalem. But that point is not even necessary to the understanding that Jesus is speaking of His return that the whole world will see.

                    Very few on this earth seen the destruction of Jerusalem. You are certainly correct about it being a curse upon the Jews. They spoke this curse upon themselves.

                    Since we are discussing the destruction of Jerusalem, it would be good to see why this took place. The only reason the Jews took Jesus to the Roman governor was the fact that they had lost the power to rule themselves and had no power to put anyone to death. Please bear with all of these accounts as this is a very important point to understand why and what is the destruction of Jerusalem:

                    Matthew 27
                    15 Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. 16 At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus[b] Barabbas. 17 So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?” 18 For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

                    19 While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

                    20 But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

                    21 “Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

                    “Barabbas,” they answered.

                    22 “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

                    They all answered, “Crucify him!”

                    23 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

                    But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

                    24 When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!”

                    25All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”


                    Luke 23 New International Version (NIV)

                    23 Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. 2 And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”

                    3 So Pilate asked Jesus, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

                    “You have said so,” Jesus replied.

                    4 Then Pilate announced to the chief priests and the crowd, “I find no basis for a charge against this man.”

                    5 But they insisted, “He stirs up the people all over Judea by his teaching. He started in Galilee and has come all the way here.”

                    6 On hearing this, Pilate asked if the man was a Galilean. 7 When he learned that Jesus was under Herod’s jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod,who was also in Jerusalem at that time.

                    8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was greatly pleased, because for a long time he had been wanting to see him. From what he had heard about him, he hoped to see him perform a sign of some sort. 9 He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 The chief priests and the teachers of the law were standing there, vehemently accusing him. 11 Then Herod and his soldiers ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in an elegant robe, they sent him back to Pilate. 12 That day Herod and Pilate became friends—before this they had been enemies.

                    13 Pilate called together the chief priests, the rulers and the people,14 and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was inciting the people to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15 Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. 16 Therefore, I will punish him and then release him.” [17]

                    18 But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” 19 (Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)

                    20 Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21 But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!”

                    22 For the third time he spoke to them: “Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him.”

                    23 But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24 So Pilate decided to grant their demand.25 He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.

                    John 18
                    Jesus Before Pilate


                    28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”

                    30 “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”

                    31 Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”

                    “But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected. 32 This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die.

                    33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

                    34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”

                    35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”

                    36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

                    37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.

                    Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”

                    38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him.39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”

                    40 They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.

                    John 19 New International Version (NIV)

                    Jesus Sentenced to Be Crucified

                    19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they slapped him in the face.

                    4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.” 5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!” ( this was from the Holy Spirit, as Jesus was THE man as He said, all other men have fell short of the glory that God planned for them)

                    6As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”

                    But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”

                    7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

                    8 When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”

                    11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

                    12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”

                    13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaicis Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.

                    “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.

                    15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”

                    “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.

                    “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

                    16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

                    NOTE: that day the leaders of the Jews ( the Pharisees were both religious and government leaders of the Jews) removed themselves from the Kingship and protection of God and made Caesar their King. They have not liked their Kings, The Pope, The Leaders of Islam, The Kings of Europe, Hitler, Stalin , etc. but they put themselves under their authority instead of God's.

                    The Only Jews that do not remain under this curse are those who denounce this statement by the Pharisees and repent of it. Notice that Steve, who is a Jew and a member here, always calls Jesus, his King.

                    This should reveal to us that the Jews are still under that same curse and that same tribulation. The destruction of Jerusalem was only the START of that tribulation. It continued for thousands of years. Perhaps if we see large numbers of Jews repenting and trusting Jesus to save them, that will be a sign of The Lord's return.
                    Last edited by Lou Newton; August 9th, 2017, 09:43 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                      Maybe it would be better said by saying we should not seek the opinions of any man, but we should seek The Holy Spirit and let Him lead us to the truth. It is good to seek the counsel of many bothers as long as we are looking to The Holy Spirit and not to men. The Holy Spirit may choose to speak through a bother of today or of long ago.
                      That's much more agreeable. I appreciate the explanation. Thank you so much, brother. :)

                      But I do disagree that I only see what I see because I had preconceived ideas.
                      I've heard it said, and I must agree, that every one of us has presuppositions. We may not know what they are, but we have them. They're the basis for the way we reason things.

                      What ever numbers are true, we will probably not know for sure until The Lord returns. But if we take the figures you quote, these numbers are far worse than the destruction of Jerusalem. But that point is not even necessary to the understanding that Jesus is speaking of His return that the whole world will see.
                      If all we look at is numbers, then your assessment is plain. God looks at the heart. Jesus said,

                      Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

                      This is hard for me to conceive of. There were not ten righteous in Sodom. It's reasonable to conclude they are all damned to eternity in hell. There are no degrees in eternity, perhaps there are degrees in judgement and hell. But they are so outside of my ability to comprehend, how could I determine the more severe of the two? It's like choosing whether it is more tolerable to fall into Sol or Alpha Centauri. But God can say for certain.

                      Very few on this earth seen the destruction of Jerusalem. You are certainly correct about it being a curse upon the Jews. They spoke this curse upon themselves.
                      Mayhap this will demonstrate a little bit how easy it is to gloss over details, and our presuppositions hinder.

                      Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

                      Matthew 24:30
                      And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: Not the sound of the great trumpet, mentioned in the following verse; nor the clouds of heaven in this; nor the sign of the cross appearing in the air, as it is said to do in the times of Constantine: not the former; for though to blow a trumpet is sometimes to give a sign, and is an alarm; and the feast which the Jews call the day of blowing the trumpets, Num_29:1 is, by the Septuagint, rendered ημερα σημασιας, "the day of signification"; yet this sign is not said to be sounded, but to appear, or to be seen, which does not agree with the sounding of a trumpet: much less can this design the last trumpet at the day of judgment, since of that the text does not speak; and, for the same reason, the clouds cannot be meant in which Christ will come to judgment, nor are clouds in themselves any sign of it: nor the latter, of which there is no hint in the word of God, nor any reason to expect it, nor any foundation for it; nor is any miraculous star intended, such as appeared at Christ's first coming, but the son of man himself: just as circumcision is called the sign of circumcision, Rom_4:11 and Christ is sometimes called a sign, Luk_2:34 as is his resurrection from the dead, Mat_12:39 and here the glory and majesty in which he shall come: and it may be observed, that the other evangelists make no mention of the sign, only speak of the son of man, Mar_13:26 and he shall appear, not in person, but in the power of his wrath and vengeance, on the Jewish nation which will be a full sign and proof of his being come: for the sense is, that when the above calamities shall be upon the civil state of that people, and there will be such changes in their ecclesiastical state it will be as clear a point, that Christ is come in the flesh, and that he is also come in his vengeance on that nation, for their rejection and crucifixion him, as if they had seen him appear in person in the heavens. They had been always seeking a sign, and were continually asking one of him; and now they will have a sign with a witness; as they had accordingly,

                      And then shall the tribes of the earth, or land,

                      mourn; that is, the land of Judea; for other lands, and countries, were not usually divided into tribes, as that was; neither were they affected with the calamities and desolations of it, and the vengeance of the son of man upon it; at least not so as to mourn on that account, but rather were glad and rejoiced:

                      and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. The Arabic version reads it, "ye shall see", as is expressed by Christ, in Mat_26:64. Where the high priest, chief priests, Scribes, and elders, and the whole sanhedrim of the Jews are spoken to: and as the same persons, namely, the Jews, are meant here as there; so the same coming of the son of man is intended; not his coming at the last day to judgment; though that will be in the clouds of heaven, and with great power and glory; but his coming to bring on, and give the finishing stroke to the destruction of that people, which was a dark and cloudy dispensation to them: and when they felt the power of his arm, might, if not blind and stupid to the last degree, see the glory of his person, that he was more than a mere man, and no other than the Son of God, whom they had despised, rejected, and crucified; and who came to set up his kingdom and glory in a more visible and peculiar manner, among the Gentiles.


                      Gill's acuity is remarkably clear.

                      Since we are discussing the destruction of Jerusalem, it would be good to see why this took place.
                      ...
                      “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

                      NOTE: that day the leaders of the Jews ( the Pharisees were both religious and government leaders of the Jews) removed themselves from the Kingship and protection of God and made Caesar their King. They have not liked their Kings, The Pope, The Leaders of Islam, The Kings of Europe, Hitler, Stalin , etc. but they put themselves under their authority instead of God's.
                      This had been consistently true for at least 490 years, the gap between the last OT book and the incarnation of Christ. God kept His remnant, but the nation was apostate and its king, priests, leaders and people corrupted one another under the influence of the spirits of their bondage.

                      It is said in other places that God hardened the nation of Israel. He decreed it. Unregenerate men can will nothing but evil. And the law makes it worse, hardening the heart under its condemnation. This is the power of sin at work. But men are still responsible for their own choices. God's grace and goodness frees men from this bondage. But Christ had to die. The prophecies to redeem the "nations" (Gentile elect) and "all Israel" (Jewish elect) would be fulfilled according to God's will, preordained and foretold.

                      The Only Jews that do not remain under this curse are those who denounce this statement by the Pharisees and repent of it. Notice that Steve, who is a Jew and a member here, always calls Jesus, his King.
                      We have to be careful how we say these things. The term "Jew" has become a very complex and nuanced label. There is neither Jew nor Greek in Christ Jesus. There are religious Jews (Orthodox, Talmudic at least two flavors, Kabbalist, and mixtures of all). Ethnic Jews. Political Jews. National Jews. A Jew 3000 years ago was not a Jew 2000 years ago is not a Jew today.

                      It is so convoluted that I have much difficulty speaking about what someone perceives as a Jew problem. That is simply carnal thinking, and I get blamed for calling it out even though I am no Christian Zionist or Jewish apologist. I see the sin problem that afflicts everyone, not a Jew problem. People have made such an incendiary topic out of it that to bring it up in any way is almost guaranteed to scorch the earth where you stand. In my estimation, God has truly confounded the legacy and heritage of the ancient Jewish people who rejected Him. It is dizzying to ponder. I know...I am probably very peculiar in this regard.

                      Steve's highest value, in my esteem, is that he is my brother in Christ: this means everything to me. You are cherished Steve. Please don't ever question it.

                      This should reveal to us that the Jews are still under that same curse and that same tribulation. The destruction of Jerusalem was only the START of that tribulation. It continued for thousands of years. Perhaps if we see large numbers of Jews repenting and trusting Jesus to save them, that will be a sign of The Lord's return.
                      This may be true. I don't have what it takes to identify Jews today. As the vocal critics of self-identified Jewish demographic rightly ask today: Who is a Jew? Who can know for sure? What is the criteria? Genealogies are impossible, and genetics only show generations of mixing. I do not agree with their hot-headed railings, but identity is a complicated question I can't shake off. This says clearly that only God knows who, if any, and whether it matters in His plan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post

                        You write: Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

                        Glen, this is an assumption that has no valid reason to be stated.

                        I had no preconceived ideas about this chapter and had never even heard of this discourse before I read it the first time.

                        Your statement is preconceived dear friend.

                        I had no training or teaching and have never even read the opinions of any mere man about this chapter. I seek and ask the very best Teacher that there is, The Holy Spirit, and ask Him about it.

                        I simply read the simple words of our dear Lord and believe what He said.

                        No one has yet answered my questions about this discourse that I asked in the other thread. I can only wonder if you can answer them.

                        You write:
                        Jesus plainly is NOT speaking of a spiritual coming in the end of the passage. He plainly says that no one has to wonder when or if this has taken place because everyone in the whole world will see it take place. Certainly you do not claim that the whole world seen the destruction of Jerusalem.

                        Are you seriously claiming that the following passage is about the destruction of Jerusalem:

                        9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

                        “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me - Jesus is NOT talking to the Jews here, but to His followers.

                        And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. - surely no one would claim this statement is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

                        15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

                        Notice Jesus is still talking to His followers here, not the Jews. Anyone who thinks the destruction of Jerusalem is the worse tribulation that ever took place has not studied history much. It was terrible, but 6 million Jews alone were killed by Hitler and millions more by Stalin and then millions more by RCC, and then millions more by Islam.

                        But this is NOT about the Jews, but Christians. Certainly the distress of the flood that killed every human except 8 was far worse than 70 AD.

                        I do not need the interpretation of any mere man to understand the simple words of Jesus.

                        You can believe what you like, but to say no one has any room to believe different is simply not a valid statement.

                        You can state your reasons why you believe what you believe, but I do not think it kind to imply that anyone who disagrees has preconceived beliefs before they even read this chapter.
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Contending over your interpretation of a Bible passage is not beneficial. There are members of the forum who support your interpretations. Indicative of your interpretations is that you deny any preconceived ideas. Baruch has already addressed this issue adequately. Your unnecessary defense of your process of deriving at an interpretation is the machinery which makes your interpretations less than beneficial rather than having the emphasis on your interpretation to be compared to that of others and scripture.

                        However, explaining the basic ideas which result in diverse interpretations of any passage will aid those with an open mind to understand both their own beliefs and that of the opposition. The aims of my posts are to provide tools and perspectives for Bible studies rather than to convince others of a particular interpretation. When interpreting the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24-25) there are important aspects that must be recognized to properly interpret this passage. The “Olivet Discourse” topic was started with listing three major issues which hinder a biblical interpretation of this passage. Each of these requires its own independent study to be fully understood.

                        (1) Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

                        (2) Matthew 24 is the majority of the Olivet Discourse - one of the five discourses identified in Matthew.
                        The parallel passages were posted to aid in observing how the Gospel of Matthew combines the similar teachings of the Lord Jesus.

                        (3) Christians fail to recognize apocalyptic language by interpreting it literally.
                        The posts on this topic by other members demonstrate this as a problem.

                        These three issues have been the basis of the general problem for correctly understanding the Olivet Discourse.
                        # (1) about preconceived ideas is derived from a number of commentaries and numerous observations of individual beliefs. This is my valid reason. If you haven’t any preconceived ideas about Matthew 24, then # (1) would not apply to you, but would not having any preconceived ideas about Matthew 24 indicate you had never read this chapter? I don’t think so.

                        Preconceived simply means to have an opinion previous to the present moment. Such an opinion might be based upon any number of influences –- preaching, commentaries, reading the passage, or praying about the passage. Preconceived ideas do not necessarily mean having an opinion before ever being exposed to something that might influence your opinion about the passage. Every belief that one has is a preconceived idea which if unrecognized will seriously hinder objectivity. Knowing why one believes a particular interpretation and the source attributed to that interpretation is essential for objectivity and Bible study. Without this awareness an individual’s interpretations are speculative opinions.
                        Last edited by glen smith; August 10th, 2017, 11:30 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by glen smith View Post
                          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Contending over your interpretation of a Bible passage is not beneficial. There are members of the forum who support your interpretations. Indicative of your interpretations is that you deny any preconceived ideas. Baruch has already addressed this issue adequately. Your unnecessary defense of your process of deriving at an interpretation is the machinery which makes your interpretations less than beneficial rather than having the emphasis on your interpretation to be compared to that of others and scripture.

                          However, explaining the basic ideas which result in diverse interpretations of any passage will aid those with an open mind to understand both their own beliefs and that of the opposition. The aims of my posts are to provide tools and perspectives for Bible studies rather than to convince others of a particular interpretation. When interpreting the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24-25) there are important aspects that must be recognized to properly interpret this passage. The “Olivet Discourse” topic was started with listing three major issues which hinder a biblical interpretation of this passage. Each of these requires its own independent study to be fully understood.

                          (1) Christians attempt to make sense of this chapter using preconceived ideas about its subjects.

                          (2) Matthew 24 is the majority of the Olivet Discourse - one of the five discourses identified in Matthew.
                          The parallel passages were posted to aid in observing how the Gospel of Matthew combines the similar teachings of the Lord Jesus.

                          (3) Christians fail to recognize apocalyptic language by interpreting it literally.
                          The posts on this topic by other members demonstrate this as a problem.

                          These three issues have been the basis of the general problem for correctly understanding the Olivet Discourse.
                          # (1) about preconceived ideas is derived from a number of commentaries and numerous observations of individual beliefs. This is my valid reason. If you haven’t any preconceived ideas about Matthew 24, then # (1) would not apply to you, but would not having any preconceived ideas about Matthew 24 indicate you had never read this chapter? I don’t think so.

                          Preconceived simply means to have an opinion previous to the present moment. Such an opinion might be based upon any number of influences –- preaching, commentaries, reading the passage, or praying about the passage. Preconceived ideas do not necessarily mean having an opinion before ever being exposed to something that might influence your opinion about the passage. Every belief that one has is a preconceived idea which if unrecognized will seriously hinder objectivity. Knowing why one believes a particular interpretation and the source attributed to that interpretation is essential for objectivity and Bible study. Without this awareness an individual’s interpretations are speculative opinions.
                          Glen I had no preconceived ideas about Matthew 24 before I studied it for over 40 years. I simply read it and asked The Lord to help this blind man see. The words are very simple and clear when we confess that we are blind and ask Him to help us see. He simply points out the simple words that we did not see in our blindness, the meaning is then clear.

                          You claim to take a higher road, but it does not seem higher to me.

                          I do not defend my position in this issue, but simply point out the words that our Lord spoke and words have meaning.

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