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Does the Fourth Commandment Support the Calendar-Day View of Creation ?

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  • Does the Fourth Commandment Support the Calendar-Day View of Creation ?

    Here is another article sent to me by Hugh Ross. I did not get my belief of an old earth from this source, but from Bible study. But it was nice to see that someone was hearing something close to what I was hearing from The Lord.


    Does the Fourth Commandment Support the Calendar-Day View of Creation?

    February 5, 2015

    By Dr. Hugh Ross


    From Lawrence R.

    I have been in a discussion with a young-earth creationist, and would like some clarification on how we are to understand Exodus 20:11–15 in light of the RTB model of creation days.


    In six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them; but on the seventh day he rested. That is why the LORD has blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    I think I understand it that the creation days have literal and allegorical meanings, like so much of the scriptures have multiple layers of reference, and meaning. What say you?

    ****

    The Hebrew word translated “day” (yôm) in Genesis 1 has four distinct literal definitions: (1) part of the daylight hours, for example, noon to 3 PM; (2) all of the daylight hours; (3) one rotation period of Earth—currently 24 hours; and (4) an extended, but finite period of time. Three of these four definitions are clearly and indisputably used in the account of the seven creation days: definition #2 in Genesis 1:5, definition #3 in Genesis 1:14, and definition #4 in Genesis 2:4. Thus, the debate between calendar-day (young-earth) and day-age (old-earth) creationists really isn’t between a literal and an allegorical interpretation of the Genesis creation days. Both sides hold that God created in six literal days. It is significant as well to recognize that in yôm is the only word in the biblical Hebrew vocabulary that can be defined as “a long, but finite, period of time.”

    Calendar-day creationists often point to the fourth commandment regarding the Sabbath (Exodus 20:9–11) as solid support for their interpretation of the creation days.


    Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

    However, this passage is just one of five in the Pentateuch (Exodus 20:9–11; 31:15–17; 35:2; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:12–15) that address the fourth commandment. For all five passages the preposition “in” is not present in the original Hebrew text. For three of them (Exodus 35:2; Leviticus 23:3; Deuteronomy 5:12–15), no connection at all is drawn between God’s workweek and humanity’s. For the remaining two passages, the calendar-day support would hold only if neither the word for “day” nor the word for “Sabbath” were ever used with reference to any time period other than 24-hours. However, just like yôm has variable usage, so does shabbat (“Sabbath”).

    In all five passages, the Sabbath rest for humanity is referred to as “a sabbath,” indicating that there may be more than one kind of Sabbath. Hebrew scholar Gleason Archer noted, “By no means does this [Exodus 20:9–11] demonstrate that 24-hour intervals were involved in the first six ‘days,’ any more than the eight-day celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles proves that the wilderness wanderings under Moses occupied only eight days.”1

    Sometimes a sabbath is a full year, as in Leviticus 25:4, where God commands a 12-month rest period for agricultural land. Sabbaths for God’s physical creation appear to be related to the biological limits of His creatures. Thus, a 24-hour rest period every seven calendar days is appropriate for humans, while a 12-month rest period every seven years is best for agricultural fields. Since God is not subject to biological limits, His “rest” period can be of any duration He chooses. Thus, the mention of a sabbath in Exodus 20:9–11 seems to be a reference to the pattern of one out of seven, not the precise duration of the creation days. Therefore, the creation days need not be interpreted as 24-hour periods based on Exodus 20.

    For a more in-depth treatment of the Exodus 20 passage as it relates to RTB’s understanding of the length of the Genesis creation days, see chapter 8 of my book A Matter of Days, a new edition of which will be released this spring.

    Subjects: Biblical Evidence for an Old Earth



    Dr. Hugh Ross

    Reasons to Believe emerged from my passion to research, develop, and proclaim the most powerful new reasons to believe in Christ as Creator, Lord, and Savior and to use those new reasons to reach people for Christ. Read more about Dr. Hugh Ross.



    References:

    1.Gleason L. Archer, “A Response to the Trustworthiness of Scripture in Areas Relating to Natural Science,” in Hermeneutics, Inerrancy, and the Bible, eds. Earl D. Radmacher and Robert D. Preus (Grand Rapids, MI: Academie Books, 1986), 329.
    http://www.reasons.org/articles/q-a-...ew-of-creation

  • #2
    Thanks for sharing this, Lou. I enjoyed perusing the website regarding Hugh's RTB ministry. It sounds like the Lord has a special call on his life.

    Blane

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Blane View Post
      Thanks for sharing this, Lou. I enjoyed perusing the website regarding Hugh's RTB ministry. It sounds like the Lord has a special call on his life.

      Blane
      Hi Blane,

      I get emails from Hugh often. I just share the ones that I think everyone would benefit from.

      I agree with much of what Hugh Ross writes, but NOT everything. Hugh believes the six days in Genesis 1 are very long period of times. I believe that the "days" in Genesis 1 are not even about time at all. But they are about the coming of light. It was dark and the "day" came, or it was dark and the light came.

      Hugh gets his revelations from studying the creation. I get my revelations from studying the scriptures. Both fields of study are good.

      God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all.

      The first day was the coming of natural light.

      The second day was the coming of the atmosphere on the earth.

      The third day was the coming of land for man to live on and the coming of plants to produce food and oxygen for man.

      The fourth day was the appearance of the sun and moon from the earth. The matter that they formed from had been created in the beginning. The sun formed before the first " day", but the earth was still without form (in other words the matter that later formed the earth was going around the sun but it had not formed into the earth yet). The sun had been producing light from the time God said let there be light. The moon seemed to have been formed after that ( just as there can be no church without Jesus, the sun was formed FIRST). The light from the sun had been producing plants on the earth and the plants had been producing oxygen for man to breath. The light had been coming on the earth from the time God said let there be light. But it was like a cloudy day, for dust filled the solar system between the sun and the earth. But over time the solar wind blew this dust out of the solar system and the sun and moon were able to be seen from the earth. From that time the sun and moon could also be used to mark the seasons and time just as they are used today. But before that time the sun was only a source of light. This was a shadow of how we see the light from God first, and later we actually see Him. Nothing can live without light from God. In His creation nothing can live on the earth without light from the sun. To say otherwise is simply to state that there can be life without the Lord Jesus. Which is ridiculous of course.

      The fifth day was God's second act of creation. He created the soul and commanded the earth to produce the animals.

      The sixth day was God's third act of creation. He created the spirit of man and breathed the spirit into man.

      Man is the only creature that God says He BOTH, CREATED and MADE. This fact reveals the mystery of the creation and making of man that men have argued about for centuries.

      God uses the word CREATED when He makes something out of nothing so to speak.

      God uses the word MAKE, or LET THERE BE when he forms something out of matter that was created in the beginning.

      I choose not to reveal how God CREATED and MADE man because I chose not to participate in arguments about it.

      Grace to you

      Lou Newton
      Last edited by Lou Newton; February 7, 2015, 09:57 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
        Hi Blane,


        God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all.

        The first day was the coming of natural light.

        The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. - Genesis 1:2-3


        Thanks, Lou.

        Okay...something crossed my mind. In the Bible, darkness is associated with sin.

        This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. - I John 1:5-7

        So maybe sin covered whatever the deep was and when The Light came it destroyed the sin that was over the face of the deep.

        I also wonder if time existed before the earth was made. Scripture says the earth was without form or void, not the universe.

        Sorry if none of this makes much sense. I'm just rambling off the top of my head.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by The Knight View Post
          The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. - Genesis 1:2-3


          Thanks, Lou.

          Okay...something crossed my mind. In the Bible, darkness is associated with sin.

          This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. - I John 1:5-7

          So maybe sin covered whatever the deep was and when The Light came it destroyed the sin that was over the face of the deep.

          I also wonder if time existed before the earth was made. Scripture says the earth was without form or void, not the universe.

          Sorry if none of this makes much sense. I'm just rambling off the top of my head.
          Hi Karl,

          The Lord Jesus has left us the Holy Scriptures and the creation. The creation declares the glory of God.

          We can see by the evidence that God left us in the universe that many stars were here long before our sun. Our sun is a third generation star. That means that there were first generation stars and some of the very large ones went supernova and the heavier elements that were created in those supernovas formed clouds with heavier elements in them. When two or more of these clouds collided they formed a second generation star. When many of these second generation stars went supernova they then formed third generation stars.

          So our sun was formed long after the beginning, or the big bang.

          When our sun formed, the material that later formed the earth was orbiting the sun, but it was not formed into the earth yet. The earth formed after the sun started nuclear fusion and started giving off light.

          Space, time, and all matter was created in the beginning. That is why it is called the beginning. It is the beginning of time and everything in this material universe.

          The material universe does not sin. Only man and demons sin.

          Material darkness is a material shadow of sin. Just as there are shadows of Christ that are not really Christ. The natural light is also not God, but a shadow of God to teach us who God is and what He is like.

          I use the word shadow because your shadow is the rough outline of you, but it is not even close to being you. Someone may be able to tell your shadow from my shadow though. I am 5'-5" and you are much taller. But our shadows can not walk or talk or act.

          Lou

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
            Hi Karl,

            The Lord Jesus has left us the Holy Scriptures and the creation. The creation declares the glory of God.

            We can see by the evidence that God left us in the universe that many stars were here long before our sun. Our sun is a third generation star. That means that there were first generation stars and some of the very large ones went supernova and the heavier elements that were created in those supernovas formed clouds with heavier elements in them. When two or more of these clouds collided they formed a second generation star. When many of these second generation stars went supernova they then formed third generation stars.

            So our sun was formed long after the beginning, or the big bang.

            When our sun formed, the material that later formed the earth was orbiting the sun, but it was not formed into the earth yet. The earth formed after the sun started nuclear fusion and started giving off light.

            Space, time, and all matter was created in the beginning. That is why it is called the beginning. It is the beginning of time and everything in this material universe.

            The material universe does not sin. Only man and demons sin.

            Material darkness is a material shadow of sin. Just as there are shadows of Christ that are not really Christ. The natural light is also not God, but a shadow of God to teach us who God is and what He is like.

            I use the word shadow because your shadow is the rough outline of you, but it is not even close to being you. Someone may be able to tell your shadow from my shadow though. I am 5'-5" and you are much taller. But our shadows can not walk or talk or act.

            Lou

            That's a really good explanation, Lou. Thanks.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
              Hi Blane,

              I get emails from Hugh often. I just share the ones that I think everyone would benefit from.

              I agree with much of what Hugh Ross writes, but NOT everything. Hugh believes the six days in Genesis 1 are very long period of times. I believe that the "days" in Genesis 1 are not even about time at all. But they are about the coming of light. It was dark and the "day" came, or it was dark and the light came.

              Hugh gets his revelations from studying the creation. I get my revelations from studying the scriptures. Both fields of study are good.

              God is light and there is no darkness in Him at all.

              The first day was the coming of natural light.

              The second day was the coming of the atmosphere on the earth.

              The third day was the coming of land for man to live on and the coming of plants to produce food and oxygen for man.

              The fourth day was the appearance of the sun and moon from the earth. The matter that they formed from had been created in the beginning. The sun formed before the first " day", but the earth was still without form (in other words the matter that later formed the earth was going around the sun but it had not formed into the earth yet). The sun had been producing light from the time God said let there be light. The moon seemed to have been formed after that ( just as there can be no church without Jesus, the sun was formed FIRST). The light from the sun had been producing plants on the earth and the plants had been producing oxygen for man to breath. The light had been coming on the earth from the time God said let there be light. But it was like a cloudy day, for dust filled the solar system between the sun and the earth. But over time the solar wind blew this dust out of the solar system and the sun and moon were able to be seen from the earth. From that time the sun and moon could also be used to mark the seasons and time just as they are used today. But before that time the sun was only a source of light. This was a shadow of how we see the light from God first, and later we actually see Him. Nothing can live without light from God. In His creation nothing can live on the earth without light from the sun. To say otherwise is simply to state that there can be life without the Lord Jesus. Which is ridiculous of course.

              The fifth day was God's second act of creation. He created the soul and commanded the earth to produce the animals.

              The sixth day was God's third act of creation. He created the spirit of man and breathed the spirit into man.

              Man is the only creature that God says He BOTH, CREATED and MADE. This fact reveals the mystery of the creation and making of man that men have argued about for centuries.

              God uses the word CREATED when He makes something out of nothing so to speak.

              God uses the word MAKE, or LET THERE BE when he forms something out of matter that was created in the beginning.

              I choose not to reveal how God CREATED and MADE man because I chose not to participate in arguments about it.

              Grace to you

              Lou Newton
              Here is a video showing how large some stars are compared to the sun and earth:

              Scroll down the page until you see the video.

              http://earthsky.org/brightest-stars/...brightest-star

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lou Newton
                The fifth day was God's second act of creation. He created the soul and commanded the earth to produce the animals.

                The sixth day was God's third act of creation. He created the spirit of man and breathed the spirit into man.

                Man is the only creature that God says He BOTH, CREATED and MADE. This fact reveals the mystery of the creation and making of man that men have argued about for centuries.

                God uses the word CREATED when He makes something out of nothing so to speak.

                God uses the word MAKE, or LET THERE BE when he forms something out of matter that was created in the beginning.

                I choose not to reveal how God CREATED and MADE man because I chose not to participate in arguments about it.

                Grace to you

                Lou Newton
                Lou, I feel slighted that you feel unable to share publicly what God has revealed to you regarding the creation of mankind. But I understand. In fact, I recall the firestorm that broke out on another forum about four years ago when you attempted to do so.

                Would you prayerfully consider sharing with me privately what God has shown you? I would greatly appreciate it and assure you I won't argue or reveal to anyone what God has shown you.

                Blane

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Blane View Post
                  Lou, I feel slighted that you feel unable to share publicly what God has revealed to you regarding the creation of mankind. But I understand. In fact, I recall the firestorm that broke out on another forum about four years ago when you attempted to do so.

                  Would you prayerfully consider sharing with me privately what God has shown you? I would greatly appreciate it and assure you I won't argue or reveal to anyone what God has shown you.

                  Blane
                  Hi Blane,

                  I will pray about it. I am willing to do whatever The Lord Jesus would lead me to do.

                  But consider discussing among yourselves why the Lord would say that he both created man and made man. And why is man the only one this is said about.
                  What is the difference between when God creates and when he makes or says let there be.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                    Hi Karl,

                    The Lord Jesus has left us the Holy Scriptures and the creation. The creation declares the glory of God.

                    We can see by the evidence that God left us in the universe that many stars were here long before our sun. Our sun is a third generation star. That means that there were first generation stars and some of the very large ones went supernova and the heavier elements that were created in those supernovas formed clouds with heavier elements in them. When two or more of these clouds collided they formed a second generation star. When many of these second generation stars went supernova they then formed third generation stars.

                    So our sun was formed long after the beginning, or the big bang.

                    When our sun formed, the material that later formed the earth was orbiting the sun, but it was not formed into the earth yet. The earth formed after the sun started nuclear fusion and started giving off light.

                    Space, time, and all matter was created in the beginning. That is why it is called the beginning. It is the beginning of time and everything in this material universe.

                    The material universe does not sin. Only man and demons sin.

                    Material darkness is a material shadow of sin. Just as there are shadows of Christ that are not really Christ. The natural light is also not God, but a shadow of God to teach us who God is and what He is like.

                    I use the word shadow because your shadow is the rough outline of you, but it is not even close to being you. Someone may be able to tell your shadow from my shadow though. I am 5'-5" and you are much taller. But our shadows can not walk or talk or act.

                    Lou
                    This highlighted in blue struck me profoundly, Lou.

                    Strong's defines the word translated as image in Gen 1:26-27 (and others), "From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew."

                    When I dug into some other conjugations, the words convey to me meaning that is at once unflattering and humbling.

                    Psa 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah. 6 Surely every man walketh in a vain shew: surely they are disquieted in vain: he heapeth up riches, and knoweth not who shall gather them.

                    The gulf between God's stature and man's is like that between me and my shadow. My shadow has no life of its own, it takes its existence from me. It cannot endure the unattenuated light. It vanishes instantly while I continue on a pace. It has my form, but it cannot even flick a speck of dust. It is flat and lacks the glory of my features, it is uncomely and boring compared to me. It lacks the faculties to regard me, let alone comprehend me.

                    Yet God deemed it good to be a Father to us, and more.

                    Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

                    I surmise He considers us as empty as an idol before we know Him, but He hates idols and He loves us, cares and provides for us, and gave all He had in order to draw us to Himself. Father God amazes me all the time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                      This highlighted in blue struck me profoundly, Lou.

                      Strong's defines the word translated as image in Gen 1:26-27 (and others), "From an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew."

                      When I dug into some other conjugations, the words convey to me meaning that is at once unflattering and humbling.

                      Psa 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah. 6 Surely every man walketh in a vain shew: surely they are disquieted in vain: he heapeth up riches, and knoweth not who shall gather them.

                      The gulf between God's stature and man's is like that between me and my shadow. My shadow has no life of its own, it takes its existence from me. It cannot endure the unattenuated light. It vanishes instantly while I continue on a pace. It has my form, but it cannot even flick a speck of dust. It is flat and lacks the glory of my features, it is uncomely and boring compared to me. It lacks the faculties to regard me, let alone comprehend me.

                      Yet God deemed it good to be a Father to us, and more.

                      Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

                      I surmise He considers us as empty as an idol before we know Him, but He hates idols and He loves us, cares and provides for us, and gave all He had in order to draw us to Himself. Father God amazes me all the time.
                      Very good comments Barry. How true they are. It is only when we ponder on these things that The Holy Spirit can bring questions to our minds and then when we ask these same questions of Him, he will answer us.

                      What you have seen is that our flesh is almost nothing. It is like a mere shadow of The Lord. We are made in His image. But that image in the flesh is nothing compared to Him. We have no reason to glory one bit about our flesh.

                      But man has gloried about His flesh. Popes have murdered people, or banished them, for even suggesting that our flesh is not so glorious as to be far different than any other flesh.

                      Now there are different kinds of flesh, as Paul points out. But we have the following fact to deal with:

                      God is not going to save even one persons flesh.

                      No flesh will enter heaven.

                      WHY ?

                      Are we not like animals in the flesh ?

                      Who can find scriptures that reveal we are like selfish animals in our flesh ?

                      Grace to you

                      Lou Newton
                      Last edited by Lou Newton; February 8, 2015, 09:39 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                        Hi Blane,

                        I will pray about it. I am willing to do whatever The Lord Jesus would lead me to do.

                        But consider discussing among yourselves why the Lord would say that he both created man and made man. And why is man the only one this is said about.
                        What is the difference between when God creates and when he makes or says let there be.
                        Well, as you've pointed out before, mankind is the only entity in creation that has a physical body, a spirit, and a soul. Psalm 139:13-16 testifies that our physical bodies were knit together by God in our mother's womb (apparently using materials which God created long before we were conceived.) But our spirit becomes a new creation in Christ (2 Cor 5:17). Our born again human spirit is not part of God's original creation. It is not of this earth or universe. So it would seem that God MADE each of us, and He also CREATES everyone anew who comes to be born again from above.

                        So where does the soul come from? This present physical creation? I'm not totally sure. Psalm 23 says that God restores my soul. So it seems that our souls may have originated in this present physical universe. Again, I don't know for sure, but would welcome revelation and understanding on this topic.

                        Blane

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blane View Post
                          Well, as you've pointed out before, mankind is the only entity in creation that has a physical body, a spirit, and a soul.
                          Wait a minute, I'm confused. Can't angels have physical bodies, along with their soul and spirit. The two men that got Lot out of Sodom ate and drank food?

                          Just curious.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Travis View Post
                            Wait a minute, I'm confused. Can't angels have physical bodies, along with their soul and spirit. The two men that got Lot out of Sodom ate and drank food?

                            Just curious.
                            Good question Travis.

                            An angel can make themselves seen. Jesus certainly seemed to appear like a man when he walked with Adam in the garden. Also other angels appeared to men. But that does not mean they had a body of flesh.

                            While The Lord appeared to a few men, he was not in a body of flesh.

                            For God did not become born of a woman until Mary birthed His body of flesh.

                            When The Lord appeared to Abraham in Gen 18, Abraham asked Him if he could prepare a meal for Him and he told Abraham to go ahead and do so. But it does not say if he ate it or not.

                            In Judges 6 The Angel of The Lord appeared to Gideon and Gideon prepared food for Him. But He did not eat it, but consumed it in fire.

                            What instance do you have in mind?

                            Lou

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Travis View Post
                              Wait a minute, I'm confused. Can't angels have physical bodies, along with their soul and spirit. The two men that got Lot out of Sodom ate and drank food?

                              Just curious.
                              Hi Travis,

                              Reading the passage in Genesis again, I see that the angels and the Lord did eat food that Abraham prepared for them.

                              BUT this is small potatoes compared to the demons in Gen 6 that's seemed to have sex with women.

                              But this seems to have been forbidden and the demons who did this were thrown into the pit as Jude says.

                              Comment

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