Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bible study - 1 Kings 13

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bible study - 1 Kings 13

    Bible study - 1 Kings 13

    Please read the following chapter. What questions come to mind as you read ?



    1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

    The Man of God From Judah

    13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: “Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: ‘A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you.’” 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: “This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out.”

    4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, “Seize him!” But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

    6 Then the king said to the man of God, “Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored.” So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king’s hand was restored and became as it was before.

    7 The king said to the man of God, “Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift.”

    8 But the man of God answered the king, “Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came.’” 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

    11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, “Which way did he go?” And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me.” And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, “Are you the man of God who came from Judah?”
    “I am,” he replied.

    15 So the prophet said to him, “Come home with me and eat.”

    16 The man of God said, “I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.’”

    18 The old prophet answered, “I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: ‘Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water.’” (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

    20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, “This is what the Lord says: ‘You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.’”

    23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

    26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, “It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him.”

    27 The prophet said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me,” and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, “Alas, my brother!”
    31 After burying him, he said to his sons, “When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true.”

    33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.
    Here is a question to start the discussion: Why did The Lord cry out to the altar and not the King of the people ? An altar has no ears to hear.

    But there are many deeper mysteries in this passage than this. Please post some of them.

    Lou Newton

  • #2
    This is interesting. I don't have any questions as of yet, but I have some observations. First, when God writes He sometimes personifies things that are not persons because they are just that important to Him. Additionally, when I saw this passage I immediately thought of this scripture (note the references to the altar):

    Matthew 23:16-16-22
    16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

    Is the altar a foreshadow of the New Covenant in some way? What does the altar represent in the New Covenant? Jesus often used concrete examples and foreshadows with a hidden spiritual meaning that was only understandable by those who loved and followed Him.
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by AGTG View Post
      This is interesting. I don't have any questions as of yet, but I have some observations. First, when God writes He sometimes personifies things that are not persons because they are just that important to Him. Additionally, when I saw this passage I immediately thought of this scripture (note the references to the altar):

      Matthew 23:16-16-22
      16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.

      Is the altar a foreshadow of the New Covenant in some way? What does the altar represent in the New Covenant? Jesus often used concrete examples and foreshadows with a hidden spiritual meaning that was only understandable by those who loved and followed Him.
      Thanks for the reply Jeff.

      good comment - see you did have two questions, and good ones at that.

      Lou

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
        Bible study - 1 Kings 13

        Please read the following chapter. What questions come to mind as you read ?





        Here is a question to start the discussion: Why did The Lord cry out to the altar and not the King of the people ? An altar has no ears to hear.

        But there are many deeper mysteries in this passage than this. Please post some of them.

        Lou Newton
        Hi Brother,

        I seem to remember that the Pharisees considered the gold that was in the temple more holy than the temple due to their ignorance. They also swore by the sacrifice and not by the altar that made the sacrifice consecrated.

        Mat_23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

        So the altar is set up or given to us by God to sanctify our sacrifice.

        Jesus was sacrificed on a type of altar.

        Also the ashes pouring out seem to contrast all the atonement made over the years on this altar and how it all was spilled out or rejected?

        What do you think, I am lacking a few IQ points. Thanks pal. ..... Steve

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
          Hi Brother,

          I seem to remember that the Pharisees considered the gold that was in the temple more holy than the temple due to their ignorance. They also swore by the sacrifice and not by the altar that made the sacrifice consecrated.

          Mat_23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

          So the altar is set up or given to us by God to sanctify our sacrifice.

          Jesus was sacrificed on a type of altar.

          Also the ashes pouring out seem to contrast all the atonement made over the years on this altar and how it all was spilled out or rejected?

          What do you think, I am lacking a few IQ points. Thanks pal. ..... Steve
          Hi Steve,

          Thanks for the reply.

          I agree that the Pharisees were ignorant, and I feel sure that ignorance had some part in their error. But it may have also been greed that was part of the cause of them teaching that the gold or the gift was greater. We often believe whatever seems best for our fleshly existence, instead of our spiritual eternity.

          I agree that God was rejecting every sacrifice that had been made on that altar by spitting it and the ashes of the sacrifices spilling out.

          IQ - does that stand for instant quince. Why didn't you tell me you were low on quinces. I do not see many quinces, let alone instant quinces.

          If you are only low on instant quinces, you are far better off than me. I have never tasted a quince; and I have never even heard of instant quinces. Can you make a pie with them ?

          Lou

          Comment


          • #6
            Oo. I'm looking forward to this deep dive.

            I think the hints that Jeff and Steve mentioned, that swearing on the altar and temple of God is the equivalent of swearing by Him, are on the right track.

            The text leads me to deduce the altar that was rent was perhaps at one of the two golden calves (1Ki 12:28) that Jeroboam stood up in the high places he erected because he was afraid the people of Israel would visit Jerusalem, and while in Jerusalem their hearts would turn to God and the king (Solomon's wayward son, of the house of David) and he feared they would then kill Jeroboam.

            The altar of God is holy, from which the sweet smelling sacrifices flow up towards heaven, and the land is holy. Surely God's presence likes to attend such a place.

            The altar of gods who are no gods is unholy, the land is defiled by the sins committed in that place. God would hate such a place and would turn His face against it. The unclean spirits who are no gods, though, would love such a place.

            So in the natural the prophet cried against the altar, but in the spiritual he cried against the unclean spirit of that place in which snare the people were bound.

            This whole thing has very important prophetic implications: Jeroboam's rent garment at the hands of the prophet Ahijah, the rent kingdom of Israel, and the rent altar. God said it was from Him (1Ki 12:24). But that would expand the scope of this thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Baruch View Post
              Oo. I'm looking forward to this deep dive.

              I think the hints that Jeff and Steve mentioned, that swearing on the altar and temple of God is the equivalent of swearing by Him, are on the right track.

              The text leads me to deduce the altar that was rent was perhaps at one of the two golden calves (1Ki 12:28) that Jeroboam stood up in the high places he erected because he was afraid the people of Israel would visit Jerusalem, and while in Jerusalem their hearts would turn to God and the king (Solomon's wayward son, of the house of David) and he feared they would then kill Jeroboam.

              The altar of God is holy, from which the sweet smelling sacrifices flow up towards heaven, and the land is holy. Surely God's presence likes to attend such a place.

              The altar of gods who are no gods is unholy, the land is defiled by the sins committed in that place. God would hate such a place and would turn His face against it. The unclean spirits who are no gods, though, would love such a place.

              So in the natural the prophet cried against the altar, but in the spiritual he cried against the unclean spirit of that place in which snare the people were bound.

              This whole thing has very important prophetic implications: Jeroboam's rent garment at the hands of the prophet Ahijah, the rent kingdom of Israel, and the rent altar. God said it was from Him (1Ki 12:24). But that would expand the scope of this thread.
              Thanks for the very good comment Barry.

              Lou

              Comment


              • #8
                In chapter 13, when the former prophet declined to return with the latter prophet, to visit his house and eat bread and drink water, the latter prophet lied, who said in 1Ki 13:18, "I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water."

                The latter prophet knew the former prophet was under the commandment of God. Why did he lie?

                He didn't behave like a man out to subvert the will of God. God prophesied by him while they sat at table, and God's lion allowed him to collect the body of the former prophet for burial. He chose to be buried with the former prophet, in a land away from his father, which I gather is significant for Jews who took their burial rites seriously.

                It doesn't seem reasonable that the latter prophet was merely lonely and sought the company of the former, even if he did remarkable works. He had to know better than to meddle in the affairs of God.

                Maybe he saw that the former prophet had a direct, personal relationship with God, and hoped to get closer to God through fellowship with the man. Or maybe it wasn't human motives at all.

                I have thought about this before. It is still a mystery to me.
                Last edited by Baruch; February 17, 2015, 11:06 PM. Reason: gettin' my formers and latters mixed up

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                  In chapter 13, when the former prophet declined to return with the latter prophet, to visit his house and eat bread and drink water, the latter prophet lied, who said in 1Ki 13:18, "I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water."

                  The latter prophet knew the former prophet was under the commandment of God. Why did he lie?

                  He didn't behave like a man out to subvert the will of God. God prophesied by him while they sat at table, and God's lion allowed him to collect the body of the latter prophet for burial. He chose to be buried with the former prophet, in a land away his father, which I gather is significant for Jews who took their burial rites seriously.

                  It doesn't seem reasonable that the latter prophet was merely lonely and sought the company of the former, even if he did remarkable works. He had to know better than to meddle in the affairs of God.

                  Maybe he saw that the former prophet had a direct, personal relationship with God, and hoped to get closer to God through fellowship with the man. Or maybe it wasn't human motives at all.

                  I have thought about this before. It is still a mystery to me.
                  Bravo Barry. That is one of the mysteries of this chapter that we will discuss. You have also touched on other things that many do not even seem to question, but are very significant.

                  Lou

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1 Kings 13 New International Version (NIV)

                    The Man of God From Judah

                    13 By the word of the Lord a man of God came from Judah to Bethel, as Jeroboam was standing by the altar to make an offering. 2 By the word of the Lord he cried out against the altar: “Altar, altar! This is what the Lord says: ‘A son named Josiah will be born to the house of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests of the high places who make offerings here, and human bones will be burned on you.’” 3 That same day the man of God gave a sign: “This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out.”

                    4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, “Seize him!” But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5 Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.

                    6 Then the king said to the man of God, “Intercede with the Lord your God and pray for me that my hand may be restored.” So the man of God interceded with the Lord, and the king’s hand was restored and became as it was before.

                    7 The king said to the man of God, “Come home with me for a meal, and I will give you a gift.”

                    8 But the man of God answered the king, “Even if you were to give me half your possessions, I would not go with you, nor would I eat bread or drink water here. 9 For I was commanded by the word of the Lord: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water or return by the way you came.’” 10 So he took another road and did not return by the way he had come to Bethel.

                    11 Now there was a certain old prophet living in Bethel, whose sons came and told him all that the man of God had done there that day. They also told their father what he had said to the king. 12 Their father asked them, “Which way did he go?” And his sons showed him which road the man of God from Judah had taken. 13 So he said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me.” And when they had saddled the donkey for him, he mounted it 14 and rode after the man of God. He found him sitting under an oak tree and asked, “Are you the man of God who came from Judah?”
                    “I am,” he replied.

                    15 So the prophet said to him, “Come home with me and eat.”

                    16 The man of God said, “I cannot turn back and go with you, nor can I eat bread or drink water with you in this place. 17 I have been told by the word of the Lord: ‘You must not eat bread or drink water there or return by the way you came.’”

                    18 The old prophet answered, “I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the Lord: ‘Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water.’” (But he was lying to him.) 19 So the man of God returned with him and ate and drank in his house.

                    20 While they were sitting at the table, the word of the Lord came to the old prophet who had brought him back. 21 He cried out to the man of God who had come from Judah, “This is what the Lord says: ‘You have defied the word of the Lord and have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you. 22 You came back and ate bread and drank water in the place where he told you not to eat or drink. Therefore your body will not be buried in the tomb of your ancestors.’”

                    23 When the man of God had finished eating and drinking, the prophet who had brought him back saddled his donkey for him. 24 As he went on his way, a lion met him on the road and killed him, and his body was left lying on the road, with both the donkey and the lion standing beside it. 25 Some people who passed by saw the body lying there, with the lion standing beside the body, and they went and reported it in the city where the old prophet lived.

                    26 When the prophet who had brought him back from his journey heard of it, he said, “It is the man of God who defied the word of the Lord. The Lord has given him over to the lion, which has mauled him and killed him, as the word of the Lord had warned him.”

                    27 The prophet said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me,” and they did so. 28 Then he went out and found the body lying on the road, with the donkey and the lion standing beside it. The lion had neither eaten the body nor mauled the donkey. 29 So the prophet picked up the body of the man of God, laid it on the donkey, and brought it back to his own city to mourn for him and bury him. 30 Then he laid the body in his own tomb, and they mourned over him and said, “Alas, my brother!”
                    31 After burying him, he said to his sons, “When I die, bury me in the grave where the man of God is buried; lay my bones beside his bones. 32 For the message he declared by the word of the Lord against the altar in Bethel and against all the shrines on the high places in the towns of Samaria will certainly come true.”

                    33 Even after this, Jeroboam did not change his evil ways, but once more appointed priests for the high places from all sorts of people. Anyone who wanted to become a priest he consecrated for the high places. 34 This was the sin of the house of Jeroboam that led to its downfall and to its destruction from the face of the earth.

                    Here is a question to start the discussion: Why did The Lord cry out to the altar and not the King of the people ? An altar has no ears to hear.

                    But there are many deeper mysteries in this passage than this. Please post some of them.

                    Lou Newton

                    The Lord did not speak to Israel or the King because they would not listen. He does not speak to those who are ignoring Him.

                    Look at Isaiah 1:

                    Isaiah 1 New International Version (NIV)1 The vision concerning Judah and Jerusalem that Isaiah son of Amoz saw during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.
                    A Rebellious Nation

                    2 Hear me, you heavens! Listen, earth!
                    For the Lord has spoken:
                    “I reared children and brought them up,
                    but they have rebelled against me.
                    3 The ox knows its master,
                    the donkey its owner’s manger,
                    but Israel does not know,
                    my people do not understand.”
                    This prophecy was about Israel. But God does not address Israel because they were ignoring Him. So God speaks to the heavens and the earth, for they both listen and obey Him. Read Genesis 1 and see this is true.

                    So God spoke to the altar for it would listen and obey Him.

                    Did the altar obey God ?

                    That same day the man of God gave a sign: “This is the sign the Lord has declared: The altar will be split apart and the ashes on it will be poured out.”

                    4 When King Jeroboam heard what the man of God cried out against the altar at Bethel, he stretched out his hand from the altar and said, “Seize him!” But the hand he stretched out toward the man shriveled up, so that he could not pull it back. 5Also, the altar was split apart and its ashes poured out according to the sign given by the man of God by the word of the Lord.
                    An altar of stone heard and obeyed The Lord while men who were given ears did not hear or repent and obey. One could say that the altar had a soft heart, while the men had hearts of stone.

                    Lou Newton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                      Here is a question to start the discussion: Why did The Lord cry out to the altar and not the King of the people ? An altar has no ears to hear.

                      But there are many deeper mysteries in this passage than this. Please post some of them.

                      Lou Newton

                      The Lord did not speak to Israel or the King because they would not listen. He does not speak to those who are ignoring Him.

                      Look at Isaiah 1:



                      This prophecy was about Israel. But God does not address Israel because they were ignoring Him. So God speaks to the heavens and the earth, for they both listen and obey Him. Read Genesis 1 and see this is true.

                      So God spoke to the altar for it would listen and obey Him.

                      Did the altar obey God ?



                      An altar of stone heard and obeyed The Lord while men who were given ears did not hear or repent and obey. One could say that the altar had a soft heart, while the men had hearts of stone.

                      Lou Newton
                      Wow. You are so right, Lou. I remembered your lesson on Isaiah 1 after reading this. *smack forehead*

                      A rock altar doesn't have the capacity to reciprocate the love God. Yet it obeys. It doesn't have a will to resist God.

                      Men have the capacity to reciprocate the love of God. Yet they disobey, resisting God of their own will.

                      John the baptist said in Matthew 3: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

                      And He did of stones raise up children unto Abraham. Dust contains powdered stones. Man is made of the dust and returns to dust. But God doesn't want spiritually dead souls who can't reciprocate His love. He wants living souls, children who desire to grow up to be like Him because He is good and worthy of trust and love.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                        In chapter 13, when the former prophet declined to return with the latter prophet, to visit his house and eat bread and drink water, the latter prophet lied, who said in 1Ki 13:18, "I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water."

                        The latter prophet knew the former prophet was under the commandment of God. Why did he lie?

                        He didn't behave like a man out to subvert the will of God. God prophesied by him while they sat at table, and God's lion allowed him to collect the body of the former prophet for burial. He chose to be buried with the former prophet, in a land away from his father, which I gather is significant for Jews who took their burial rites seriously.
                        This passage has always been a mystery to me.

                        I'm wondering if the prophet who lied did so because God put a lying spirit in his mouth, possibly as some sort of judgment. There is another passage in scripture whereby God agrees to put a lying spirit in the mouth of the king's prophets. If this case is similar, it might explain how God genuinely speaks through the lying prophet sometimes, yet a lying spirit speaks through him other times.

                        Blane

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                          Wow. You are so right, Lou. I remembered your lesson on Isaiah 1 after reading this. *smack forehead*

                          A rock altar doesn't have the capacity to reciprocate the love God. Yet it obeys. It doesn't have a will to resist God.

                          Men have the capacity to reciprocate the love of God. Yet they disobey, resisting God of their own will.

                          John the baptist said in Matthew 3: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

                          And He did of stones raise up children unto Abraham. Dust contains powdered stones. Man is made of the dust and returns to dust. But God doesn't want spiritually dead souls who can't reciprocate His love. He wants living souls, children who desire to grow up to be like Him because He is good and worthy of trust and love.
                          WOW, you get it, you really get it. Plus you add the scriptures that I hoped someone would add.

                          Amen, and God will not save the part of us that is made from dust ( the flesh); but He will save the soul of those who surrender their will (part of the soul) to Him.

                          We save our soul by giving it to Him. Those that insist upon holding onto their own soul will lose it.

                          I bet you can give me the scripture to back this up>

                          Lou

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Blane View Post
                            This passage has always been a mystery to me.

                            I'm wondering if the prophet who lied did so because God put a lying spirit in his mouth, possibly as some sort of judgment. There is another passage in scripture whereby God agrees to put a lying spirit in the mouth of the king's prophets. If this case is similar, it might explain how God genuinely speaks through the lying prophet sometimes, yet a lying spirit speaks through him other times.

                            Blane
                            Thanks so much for the reply Blane, and a brave one at that.

                            I will think on what you have said. But my first thought is that this man is a prophet of God, not of the king.

                            I do not think that God put a lying spirit in him. But let's think about it.

                            Lou

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                              WOW, you get it, you really get it. Plus you add the scriptures that I hoped someone would add.

                              Amen, and God will not save the part of us that is made from dust ( the flesh); but He will save the soul of those who surrender their will (part of the soul) to Him.

                              We save our soul by giving it to Him. Those that insist upon holding onto their own soul will lose it.

                              I bet you can give me the scripture to back this up>

                              Lou
                              You are kind, Lou. I have nothing that I haven't received, free and clear.

                              There are many scriptures vying for my fingers in answer. Let me try and guess at the best ones.

                              Mat 16:24-27 [ESV]
                              24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

                              The Greek:
                              save: deliver, protect, heal, preserve, save, do well, make whole
                              lose: destroy, die, lose, mar, perish
                              life, and soul: breath, spirit, animal sentient principle; what we and the Hebrews refer to as soul

                              The same account is given by:
                              Mar 8:34-37
                              Luk 9:23-25

                              Joh 12:23-26 [ESV]
                              23 And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 Whoever loves his life loses it, and whoever hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there will my servant be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him.

                              If we are the keepers of our life/soul, we do not truly possess it; we have already lost it, and have nothing with which to ransom it from destruction.

                              If we give our life/soul to God, He will keep it, protect it, hidden with Christ in God (Col 3:3), and give us eternal life in return (1Jo 2:25; many, search "eternal life").

                              I can think of old testament scriptures that apply, but I think not as succinctly as the new testament gospels.

                              As for death vs. eternal life, flesh vs. Spirit:

                              Paul says no good thing dwells in the flesh (Rom 7:18). When we were in the flesh--i.e. keepers of our own soul--the law worked in us to bring forth fruit unto death (Rom 7:5). But in the Spirit--i.e having put off the world/flesh--we are married to Jesus Christ, to bring forth fruit unto God (Rom 7:4).

                              Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. As we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. (1Co 15)

                              If our dead flesh is our life, we will lose it. If our quickened spirit is our life, we shall keep it.

                              Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X