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A long tube filled with demons

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  • A long tube filled with demons

    I put this video under Doctrine of Demons because demons seemed to be the focus of the video. Copeland actually said, he would not fly commercial because he does not want to get into a long tube filled with demons.

    What are your thoughts about this video:

  • #2
    Glen sent me this email:

    Glen B Smith <[email protected]>
    To:lou newton

    Feb 4 at 9:40 PM

    Prosperity Message Kenneth Copeland
    Commercial flight would curtail 65% of his ministry.
    Where did this figure come from? Why not 77%?
    I guess 65% is provided by some spirit?
    122 million brought to Christ?
    Copeland keeps diverting the issue – away from his luxurious lifestyle.

    The lifestyle of Kenneth Copeland is at odds with 1 Timothy 6:5-10 ESV.
    "5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain, 7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world. 8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."

    Christianity and Wealth

    Old Testament wealth and blessings are an Old Testament type for spiritual prosperity in Christ.
    Old Testament prophecy is generally stated in material or physical terms, including prosperity. On the other hand, New Testament fulfillment interprets these Old Testament prophecies as types or representations of eternal spiritual realities. It is an error to believe that all Old Testament prophecy or blessings are primarily fulfilled literally, especially when made to ancient Israel.

    Much of Old Testament prophesy ought to be understood in the same way Old Testament types are understood as having their symbolism fulfilled in the antitype. The type - antitype comparison is similar to prophecy because all the types are physical items, animal sacrifices, or rituals while the antitype is divinity and spiritual. In the same common-sense mode of thinking where the Bible student would never confuse a type presented in this world to be the literal thing in the spiritual world, much of Old Testament prophecy should be understood as being fulfilled in the spiritual world just as the Lord Jesus revealed, "not of this world." The same applies to material wealth for Abraham or ancient Israel. Old Testament wealth is a type of the New Testament antitype for spiritual riches.

    John 18:36 LOST
    Jesus answered,
    "My kingdom is not of this world:
    if my kingdom were of this world, my subjects would be fighting to prevent handed to Jews:
    but my kingdom is not hence."
    Or, as fleshed out in the TLB version which presents all that is implied by the text.
    John 18:36 TLB
    Jesus answered,
    “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom.
    If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders.
    But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

    Spiritually Rich scriptures in the New Testament Epistles

    Romans 10:12
    For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
    1 Corinthians 4:8
    Already you are filled! Already you have become rich! Without us you have become kings! And would that you did reign, so that we might share the rule with you!
    2 Corinthians 6:10
    as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing everything.
    2 Corinthians 8:9
    For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.
    Ephesians 1:18
    having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
    Ephesians 2:4
    But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
    Ephesians 2:7
    that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
    Ephesians 3:8
    To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
    Ephesians 3:16
    that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
    Philippians 4:19
    And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
    Colossians 1:27
    To them God chose to make known how great among the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
    Colossians 2:2
    that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ,
    Colossians 3:16
    Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
    1 Timothy 6:9
    But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
    1 Timothy 6:17
    As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.
    1 Timothy 6:18
    They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,
    Titus 3:6
    whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
    James 1:9-11
    9 Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, 10 and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass he will pass away. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.
    James 2:5
    Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

    Defending All Who Preach the Gospel

    Philippians 1:15a, 17-18 English Standard Version (ESV)
    15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
    17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
    18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

    All through the New Testament Christians ae admonished to reject the perverted gospels. However, in the above verse the Apostle Paul defends the preaching of the gospel by those motivated by other than "good will." To the discredit of Christ, preaching by American evangelicals are guilty of making all sorts of claims and the congregations are gullible because of their ignorance of scripture. Where is discernment of the "true gospel." But on the other hand, who among the proclaimers is so brazen to stand up and state their understanding of the gospel is the standard for all Christianity? Should not the genuineness of the proclamation be determined by how the Holy Spirit uses the preaching to bring people to the LORD?

    Well . . . well . . . there is the testimony of many who have come to Christ through the ministry of Kenneth Copeland. Apparently, the Holy Spirit is very apt at taking something men proclaim and planting in the hearer what God proclaims. I believe the Lord knew that even preaching would never be adequate to bring men to Himself. In other words, the LORD knew from the beginning, humans would never expound the mystery of God correctly. This must be the second aspect of redemption that is the good news; that is, even hearing the proclamation is in the LORD's hands and not regulated to only the tongues of men.

    Personal History

    The Copeland property on Eagle Mountain Lake, north of Fort Worth, was previously a Texas National Guard Base and before that a US Army airfield during WWII. The property has extensive runways and two 25-foot ramps going into the lake and a small 5-or 6-acres staging area for float planes, hangers and a control tower. Probably 4 to 6 thousand acres. My aunt worked for the base cafeteria and rented former officer's quarters located next to the sea plane staging area.

    In my youth I spent many summers swimming and boating with family members on the base. My cousin and I spent each day on the lake and exploring the base – climbing in tanks and other equipment – riding our bikes all around the roads and runways. On weekends, the adults would launch the outboard runabouts for skiing. In winter it was excellent duck hunting. During the late fifties and early sixties sports car rallies were common.

    Our families first boat (c.1948) was a 12-foot cypress flat bottom left by the army in the lake after the army transferred the property to the Texas National Guard. Several of these boats had filled with water and mud. When lake levels dropped my uncles and father dug one out of the dry lake bottom and my father rebuilt it. My most enduring childhood photograph is of my father, brother, me all in straw hats, and our dog Ginger puttering down the Brazos River in this little boat. This fading black and white photo sets on my nightstand.

    In the mid-sixties Kenneth Copeland came to the congregation I grew up in for a two-week revival. He lasted Sunday night through Thursday of the first week before his engagement was terminated. He was expounding the prosperity gospel.

    About the Leon Lush Video

    His presentation discredits Christianity.
    This is not the attitude or behavior of Holy Spirit led followers of the Lord Jesus.
    This video reeks of all that makes everything to be about the self rather than the LORD.
    For Christians, there should never be any joyous celebration in exposing a perverted gospel.
    Before casting stone, slip one's heart into Philippians 1:15a, 17-18.
    15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
    17 The former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
    18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

    04 February 2020 the old scrib

    I agree with a lot you write Glen. Thank you for your reply.

    I have an even less view of Copeland. I will say this. When watching the video and watching Copeland's face and voice the Holy Spirit he displays is not the Holy Spirit that I know. I am not judging him as to if he is saved or not, but only the Spirit he displays in not the Holy Spirit that I know and have known for 44 years.

    I happen to know really poor people who have sent him money and they had a really difficult time paying their bills. How can any man have this many mansions and properties plus many cars and planes and not give much of this money to the poor among his contributors.

    In the NT church they did not collect money to make one preacher super rich, BUT they distributed the money so that no one had a need among them.

    Acts 4 NIV

    32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all 34 that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

    This is the opposite of what Copeland is doing. The gospel is not only by words spoken by mans lips, but also by his deeds.

    I sure would not send an unbeliever who was seeking Christ to Copeland's meetings.

    As far as the young man putting the video on YouTube: He is very immature.

    Last edited by Lou Newton; February 4, 2020, 11:04 PM.


    • #3
      Glen B Smith
      To:Lou Newton

      Feb 5 at 2:09 AM
      I see what you see.
      Spiritually, he appears threatening to me.
      It is a puzzle why anyone would listen to him or support him.
      Like I commented, even though he came highly recommended, my congregation sent him packing after four sermons and a caution after the third.
      Neither would I send anyone his way.
      I don't know of any needy people who send him money,
      but know of some gullible Christians who support all sort of causes and so called "ministries."
      With those for whom there is extreme disagreement, I attempt to be objective and slow on criticism
      - leaving my opinions in the realm of discernment rather than condemnation.

      I am also subject to the wiles of this world as much as any other.
      Don't think wealth would be handled very well.
      I suppose those poverty stricken people in dirt huts in third world countries might see me as I see Copeland.
      My excuse originates from my history.
      The Texas I, and many of my childhood friends, grew up in looked a lot like a third world countries for most of my relatives.
      unpainted clapboard houses
      or dirt floor log cabins.
      Well water.
      Outdoor latrines or a shovel by the front door
      no toilet paper just Sears catalogs and corn cobs
      Wood fireplace for heat and cooking,
      or a wood burning STOVE, and a pot belly STOVE for heat.
      (Stove because you stoked the wood in the stove to make heat.)
      splitting and chopping wood
      Milked cow or goat and churned butter.
      Feather mattresses and hand made quilts.
      Some had electric light, but others had coal oil lamps (kerosene).
      Ice box (not a refrigerator) or a wood fruit crate in the window with a damp flour sake over it for cooling.
      Hog slaughtered when the weather turned cold.
      Worked in the vegetable garden year round.
      Baths, only for babies and small children in a washtub.
      Everyone else took showers under a bucket of water.
      Laundry washed in a washtub and scrubbed on a scrub board and hung on a line to dry.
      Hand me down clothes.
      No trash service or sewage charge
      Walked most places.

      No one was considered poor unless you didn't have food, a roof over your head, or shoes.

      Everyone thought it was a good life. No real hunger and absolutely no violence.

      At my great uncle's funeral in 1953, five families arrived in horse drawn wagons.
      Best funeral yet for me, and he lived in a log cabin with a dirt floor.

      In our part of Texas a log cabin meant a 8X8 cabin because the tree trunks were only that long.
      Bigger cabins were made up of 8X8 or 4X8 cabins placed end to end.
      In the summer time everyone slept outside.

      The example in the Jerusalem Christians selling property and giving the proceeds to the congregation probably had to do with their early day expectations that Christ's return was eminent. Keeping property or working when they believed Christ was about to return didn't make much sense. You might as well sell your house or land if Christ was returning in a few days. By the time of the Apostle Paul's journeys the expectation was thought of in years rather than days or months. But due to the liquidation of capital and ceasing to work, the congregations the Apostle Paul visited sent money back to support the Jerusalem congregation during a famine. I don't think the "holding everything in common" by the Jerusalem congregation is an appropriate example for most Christian communities. Such communalism only works over a life time for a small number of dedicated people, and the Jerusalem congregation grew much too large for a commune.

      I have a question for all those preaching the end is near. If they actually believed the end is near, why don't they liquidate and live on the proceeds?
      I know of people who actually did those sort of things in the late seventies thinking the rapture had to be before 1981. But that was nothing. In 1844 one of every 17 people in America sold everything and stood on hilltops waiting for Jesus - three different times. Well, I guess I see there are also those who lack discernment about Copeland.
      Thanks for the reply Glen. Thank you especially for your memories of your childhood. These were very interesting.

      I have come to the conclusion that being poor is simply having far less than those around you. These people you tell us about surely did not have much. But they did not consider themselves poor.

      I agree with what you say about the Christians in Acts. I was fully aware of that when I wrote about them in my last reply. BUT they are surely a far better example than Copeland who hoards more wealth than he could ever use if he lived longer than Methuselah.

      I certainly have the ability to earn far more money than my present income. My 20 year old car needs to be replaced. But that would mean that I would no longer write like I do, or field as many phone calls from those who need someone to talk to. To my own discredit, I often think of doing just that. But I do not seem to be able to give up my time with The Lord in my writing or my personal time with Him. I also enjoy being able to help some widow or orphan whose dryer has stopped working, or their car needs a repair. It is a choice. I do not get any credit for this choice because I am compelled to preach His gospel in any way that I am led to do.

      1 Cor 9

      . 16 For when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, since I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18 What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.

      There is another very big advantage of not being part of any Christian group, and getting an income from them. I am not tempted to believe their doctrines but I am free to seek the Lord alone, and allow His Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth. This has often been a very lonely road to walk though. As I wrote the last statement, I have to repent of it. The Lord Jesus goes everywhere I go. He walks with me and He talks with me everyday. He touches me often and has healed me more times than I can count. He also sends me to pray for the sick and preforms many miracles through my poor prayers.

      Repairing the car of a widow is making the gospel of Jesus real to her.

      Copeland hoards wealth far beyond his ability to ever use it. That is the message he preaches and not the one I am compelled to preach.
      Last edited by Lou Newton; February 5, 2020, 11:19 AM.