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    I post this under doctrine of demons because it is demons who are running this show that is described:

    by J. Lee Grady

    Some bigheaded preachers demand rock star treatment. If the
    apostle Paul were around today he might throw rocks at them.

    Just when I thought we charismatics had finally taken enough
    abuse from the egomaniac ministers in our midst, I've learned that
    some of our leaders are taking things to a new extreme. We've
    moved beyond the red carpets, limousines and entourages of the
    1990s. A new strain of the celebrity virus is spreading in large
    segments of the church.

    "What is this sickness spreading in the body of Christ? All I know
    is that God is grieved by all of this shameful carnality."

    One friend of mine in Texas recently inquired to see if a prominent
    preacher could speak at her conference. The minister's assistant
    faxed back a list of requirements that had to be met in order to
    book a speaking engagement. The demands included:
    a.. a five-figure honorarium
    b.. a $10,000 gasoline deposit for the private plane
    c.. a manicurist and hairstylist for the speaker
    d.. a suite in a five-star hotel
    e.. a luxury car from the airport to the hotel (2004 model or newer)
    f.. room-temperature Perrier

    This really makes me wonder how the apostle Paul, Timothy or
    Priscilla managed ministering to so many people in Ephesus,
    Corinth and Thessalonica. How did they survive without a
    manicurist if they broke a nail while laying hands on the sick?

    I was relieved to know that this celebrity preacher's requirements
    in 2007 did not include a set of armed bodyguards - because I just
    might want to jump uninvited into her Rolls-Royce and say a few words.

    It gets worse, if you can believe it. At a charismatic conference in
    an East Coast city recently, a pastor stood on a stage in front of
    a large crowd and smugly announced that the guest speaker was
    "more than an apostle." Then the host asked everyone to bow
    down to the person, claiming that this posture was necessary to
    release God's power.

    "This is the only way you can receive this kind of anointing!" the
    host declared, bowing in front of the speaker. Immediately, about
    80 percent of the audience fell prostrate on the floor. The few who
    were uncomfortable with the weird spiritual control in the room
    either walked out or stood in silent protest.

    So today, I guess it's not enough to feed a celebrity preacher's ego
    by treating them like a rock star. We also are required to worship him.

    And apparently in some places you even have to pay big bucks to
    speak with him. In a city in the South, a well-known preacher is
    known to ask for money in order to secure a five- or 10-minute
    counseling session. The minister uses Proverbs 18:16, "A man's
    gift makes room for him and brings him before great men" (NASB),
    to support this bizarre practice. Some people are known to give
    more than $1,000 for a short meeting.

    People on fixed incomes need not apply. (That would include
    lepers, blind beggars, Samaritan women or any other social
    outcasts who were welcomed and healed by Jesus without payment.)

    What has become of the American church? What is this sickness
    spreading in the body of Christ? I don't know whom to blame more
    for it: The narcissistic minister who craves the attention, or the
    spiritually naive crowds who place these arrogant people on their
    shaky pedestals. All I know is that God is grieved by all of this
    shameful carnality.

    How far we have fallen from authentic New Testament faith. Paul,
    who carried the anointing of an apostle but often described himself
    as a bond slave, told the Thessalonians, "Having so fond an
    affection for you, we were well-pleased to impart to you not only
    the gospel of God but also our own lives" (1 Thess. 2:8).

    New Testament Christianity is humble, selfless and authentic. And
    those who carry the truth don't preach for selfish gain or to meet
    an emotional need for attention. May God help us root out the false
    apostles and false teachers who are making the American church
    sick with their man-centered, money-focused heresies.

    ~SOURCE: (2007)

    What are our thoughts about this ? What have you seen on TV of in a church that you think is evil like this ?

  • #2
    It seems "experiencers" are prone to deception. Man and devils can counterfeit experiences. When one is seeking experiences, such as charismatics do, then the experience can supplant discernment.

    In the 1st Kings, Naaman was offended when Elisha commanded him wash seven times in the river Jordan and he would be healed of leprosy. Naaman wanted something grandiose to appease his need for ceremony and a show of power. Fortunately for Naaman his servant was given wisdom and gave his counsel, and Naaman was persuaded. How many snared in a deception can be persuaded? It seems to me none, except the Lord grants repentance.

    I'm not picking on charismatics. There are plenty of other deceptions that catch Christians and whole congregations. Yet the charismatics have been caught up flagrantly in the Toronto Blessing and the so-called Lakeland Revival, and many still throw themselves into what are obviously demonic manifestations because they're convincing. One might recall the idiom: Once bitten, twice shy. Charismatics are more than twice bitten. Consequently, in their latest folly, they follow the likes of Kenneth Copeland as he sells their souls to the whore in Rome. Again, it's not only charismatic churches falling: it's just that the article is from Charisma News and expressly mentions charismatics, and they are a vivid example.

    This leads to my observation of how the people are misled by a wolf. I would be surprised if Copeland even believed he is in Christ. Rather he is in there to build a fiefdom for his king--whether he knows it or not; some are convinced he does, but the Lord knows--and his own reward of wealth, prestige and power.

    The infiltration of the Church by the institutions of Freemasonry, the Jesuit Order, satanic covens, commerce and the pantheon of seducing spirits has been a long-standing problem. It seems to be worsening on an accelerated curve.


    • #3
      Sad but true Barry.

      Those that seek gifts are led to destruction.

      Those that seek the Giver are led to salvation for eternity.


      • #4
        Barry, Lou;
        So can you give me some examples of charismatics? Would assemblies of God fall into that? I see it better on the last comment about those that seek power and gifts instead of the Lord Jesus. As far as how it can get that bad, the catholics have claimed for centuries that you need their blessing, or you won't make heaven. I'm glad sometimes that they're so far from the truth so I can see the lie, but very sad because many fall for it, and don't even question.


        • #5
          Originally posted by redsoxmaloney View Post
          Barry, Lou;
          So can you give me some examples of charismatics? Would assemblies of God fall into that? I see it better on the last comment about those that seek power and gifts instead of the Lord Jesus. As far as how it can get that bad, the catholics have claimed for centuries that you need their blessing, or you won't make heaven. I'm glad sometimes that they're so far from the truth so I can see the lie, but very sad because many fall for it, and don't even question.
          The first church I went to was a charismatic church. There is nothing bad about being charismatic. My hope is that I am charismatic. Charismatic simply means to have The Holy Spirit and believe in the gifts of The Holy Spirit.

          No one will enter heaven without having His Holy Spirit living in them. The problem is that people are NOT what they often claim to be.

          The error of many is that they do not believe that The Holy Spirit fills people today as He did in the time of Jesus. Many do not believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today or even that there are prophets and apostles today.

          Then there is many in the Assembly of God who believe that if anyone does not speak in tongues they can not have the Holy Spirit. There is no gift of the Holy Spirit that I have seen counterfeited more than the gift of tongues. BUT I have also seen that gift operate from His Holy Spirit too.

          False gifts seem to be common and genuine gifts seem to be more rare.

          Every person gets what they seek. Those that seek the gifts, get false gifts and these gifts are common. Those that seek The Giver also get what they seek and His Holy Spirit walks and talks with them.

          No one has any true gift of His Holy Spirit that is under their own control. No mere man controls God, but God gives gifts to those who have surrendered to Him and He controls those gifts.

          I have seen many people healed by a miracle and have had miracles happen to me, BUT I had absolutely no control over when or where these would take place.

          When a mere man speaks prophecy, he has no control over what is said. IF he does control his words then they are NOT from God.

          The Holy Spirit records this in His Holy Scriptures: our best works are like filthy rags ( toilet paper). If this is our best, then who wants to hear even the best words from any man. They are all like dung.

          True prophecy, or true preaching is only when the words come from the Holy Spirit through a man. If the words are from the man, they are dung. If the words are spoken By The Holy Spirit of The Lord Jesus then they are truth.

          We can tell how the church of this nation is following His Holy Spirit by the condition of our nation.

          For God is NOT a liar but all men are lairs.

          This is what God has said:

          2 Chronicles 7

          14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

          If our land is not healed, then the people who are called by His Name have not humbled themselves and prayed and sought Him and turned from their wicked ways.

          What mere man does not need to humble himself and ask God to forgive His many sins by the day and even by the second.


          • #6
            Amen, Lou. I'm glad you explained it and not me.

            Tom, thanks for asking. I didn't intend to cast a shadow on Charismatics. Sorry if my words conveyed that. I only meant to comment that the Charismatic congregations seem to get more devilish manifestations than others. They seek gifts, and as Lou once pointed out when we reject truth there is always a lie waiting to take its place.

            Other churches' manifestations may simply be harder to spot because they have a form of godliness or look human, psychological, etc. One is more visible than the other, but they are both in error of some kind.

            Here is where Charismatics take their name, the Greek "carisma" meaning "spiritual gift", it is used by the apostle to denote a gift of the Holy Spirit:

            I agree with Lou. To be gifted of God is an honor. We should all desire the best gifts. But we shouldn't have an inordinate desire, which may open doors we would not wish to remain open.


            • #7
              Thanks guys. I see it better now. Yes, we all should be charismatics, but not at the expense of wanting something more than Jesus. I've been so angry with this whole election, I'm questioning rooting for sports teams. Lou knows I'm a huge sports guy, but I can't stand it when someone backs killary. Maybe that's a good thing.


              • #8
                Jesus himself never had any desire to be in the spotlight.


                • #9
                  Amen Karl.

                  Jesus could have come during the time of TV, but did not.

                  Instead Jesus would do a miracle and then tell the person to tell no one.

                  Jesus left a "revival meeting" on one shore of Galilee and took a boat to the opposite shore 13 miles away to free one man from a legion of demons. Few were there to see that.

                  The Lord Jesus could have revealed ( proved ) to the whole nation of Israel that He was The One and Only God Almighty at any time. But He did not do this. He will do just that when He returns.

                  He wanted some to receive Him because of His message.

                  The Lord is calling all who choose Truth and true Love to come to Him.

                  When He returns and reveals to the whole universe that He is the One and Only Creator and Almighty God, EVERY knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is LORD. But it will be too late. For they did not accept Him because of His Nature, but because of His power.