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  • Can a person meet Jesus in Spirit only?

    There is no "definite" answer to this question, but it plagues me from time to time. Raised Baptist, I was taught you must give your life to the crucified Christ in order to be saved, and yet.....I knew there were people who had no chance to meet him. Tribes in South America. The American Indians before the continent was discovered....and others.

    We are taught that young children go to Heaven if the die before the age of accountability.

    But what about the person whose innermost spirit leads them to live a 'godly' life? Is it possible that their 'spirit' actually aligns with Christ? I believe there is a scripture somewhere that alludes to a person who does not know 'of' Christ being saved by their conscious.

    I would love to hear others thoughts on this. I think it is an area we prefer to keep away from because it is not addressed plainly in the scriptures, but it rises to the surface in my heart from time to time.

  • #2
    Originally posted by TennesseeLinda View Post
    There is no "definite" answer to this question, but it plagues me from time to time. Raised Baptist, I was taught you must give your life to the crucified Christ in order to be saved, and yet.....I knew there were people who had no chance to meet him. Tribes in South America. The American Indians before the continent was discovered....and others.

    We are taught that young children go to Heaven if the die before the age of accountability.

    But what about the person whose innermost spirit leads them to live a 'godly' life? Is it possible that their 'spirit' actually aligns with Christ? I believe there is a scripture somewhere that alludes to a person who does not know 'of' Christ being saved by their conscious.

    I would love to hear others thoughts on this. I think it is an area we prefer to keep away from because it is not addressed plainly in the scriptures, but it rises to the surface in my heart from time to time.
    Hi Linda,

    I will try to answer your question by telling about a person who I know better than any other mere human being.

    My parents went to church on Christmas and Easter. They would go to this Methodist church on some holidays, but would even miss some of them. But they took me to church when I was very young ( maybe around two) and I heard the gospel? preached. I knew I was undone by hearing this message. In fact I can remember standing in between our house and the neighbors house and having, what I now know is a vision, of me preaching in front of a crowd. This scared me to no end. I knew I could not even mention God's name in front of anyone because of fear. But I knew that I was required to preach about God to the world. I came to see much later that God had called me to preach the gospel.

    Satan, who tries to say he does not even exist, exposes himself by this fear. For this unnatural fear of our Creator can only come from him. Satan has been putting this fear in all men ever since Adam surrendered to Satan, by obeying him, rather than obeying God who had been his friend. This is why we must be born again by His Holy Spirit. For Jesus takes this fear away and replaces it with a fear of not pleasing God.

    In listening to my history teachers and also learning about the world in other ways, I could see that most people were of the same religion of their birth place. People born in Muslim countries were Muslim, people born a Jew, were Jewish, people born in Christian homes were Christian. I decided at a pretty young age that I was not going to let mere chance decide my religion.

    I went to that Methodist churches' youth group for a short time because this girl went there and she hinted that I should attend. ( I don't think evangelism was the motive). They had a different preacher and I did not like him even as I met him. I was very uneasy around him and he had some effeminate mannerisms. But I did not accept what he preached as truth at all. In fact I did not like his little sermons at all. I also remember being taught things in their Sunday school that were total lies.

    I attended a Lutheran church once with a friend and liked that even less. I was asked to a dance at the Catholic school when I was in junior high and had a run in with the local priest, and felt such darkness from him that I never went close to that church again.

    As I got older I thought about religion but could not see how I ever could find out which one was true. So I mostly ignored religion as much as I could.

    I remember when I was working at this gas station when I was in high school and this man asked me if I was saved and gave me this pamphlet. The owner, Dutch, was a good hearted man, but one who hated most religions it seemed. He warned me about these kinds of people who hand this stuff out to people. But I took it home and read it. I do not remember a word it said, but it did remind me that I was in severe trouble.

    I made no thought about religion when I chose my first wife, and certainly did not pray about it. But I married a Mormon. I attended their small church where her father was the preacher. She even invited these couples to our home that we did not know. Looking back I could see that they were coming to evangelize me. They would ask us to pray together, but I was never touched by their prayers.

    They talked me into attending this Mormon summer camp where "apostles" from the "Melchizedek" priesthood would preach. I listened but was not touched in the least. Their supreme effort was to take me to this very large conference at the Kirkland Temple that had been built by the group when Joseph Smith was alive. In that temple one of our deacons got up and nominated me for the Mormon priesthood. My father in law got up and seconded that nomination. All eyes turned to me and I felt extreme pressure from everyone in the room, but I got up and refused the nomination. Looking back I can see that was a turning point in how they all looked upon me. (consider this great danger that Jesus saved me from even as I was using His great Name as a curse)

    I would use the name of Jesus and God as curse words often. But when someone would criticize Jesus, I would find myself defending him.

    One day this man knocked on our door and said his name was Dave Cave and he was from Kentucky. They were from the Assembly of God church and he asked me if I knew Jesus. I said I had heard of him, but certainly did not know Him. He asked me if I would pray with him, I said OK. He led me through the sinners prayer, and I was sincere in confessing that I was a sinner, but could not be sincere in giving my life to him. My wife mocked me many times about this prayer.

    My sister, who I regarded as a religious nut, called us and invited us to a New Years Eve party at her house. Being totally ignorant of her motives, I accepted her invitation.

    When we got there, it was not a New Years Eve party like I had envisioned at all. It was simply a gathering of religious nuts in my eyes. I was not hostile to any of them, but was very uncomfortable. I had severe ulcers at the time that gave me severe pain constantly. There was nothing there that I could eat to lesson the pain, so in desperation I ate a piece of pizza. Well that made the pain even worse so I sat down in a chair.

    My sister had arranged for this elder whose name was Bob Ritzheimer to talk to me ( I had never met him before, Bob please forgive me if I misspelled your name, may God bless you). He started talking to me, but then asked me, Lou are you in pain. I said, yes. He said well do you know that Jesus can heal that pain. I said, if there is a God, I would think he can heal. He asked me if he could pray for me. Thinking he meant we would pray in some private room, I said yes. Well he asked me to stand up and he laid his hands on my stomach and started to pray. Everyone in the house was soon around us with their hands on us and praying out loud or in some crazy sounds. I was extremely uncomfortable. Bob asked me to repeat after him. He said God, I repeated, God if you are there. Apparently my lack of knowledge about God's existence was no problem to Him, because looking back He still showed up.

    When Bob prayed for my stomach, I was stunned to feel like some fluid had flowed into my stomach. I wondered if this was just some psychological effect. But was even more stunned to see my pain go away. I could only feel like there was a spot in my stomach where the pain had been. But it did not hurt. On the way home this woman that my wife had invited along ( I used to date this woman) asked me about the prayer. I told them that I did not know what had happened, but the pain was totally gone.

    Months later this woman had come to our house and she asked me about this again. I was shocked to realize that I had not had any pain in months, but had not thought about it once. I wondered, what had taken place. I did not know. I am not one who is easily convinced of anything.

    My sister gave me a leather Bible for Christmas and I tried to read it. But reading that the Pharisees prayed and read the Bible all day, but that one must be more righteous than them to enter heaven just discouraged me to no end. But my wife was constantly mocking me about me reading the Bible and called me a terrible person. I got so fed up with her mocking that I tore the Bible into shreds and cursed my soul to hell forever. I asked her, are you happy now. At least she shut up about it.

    Years later my wife announced that she was divorcing me and moving to Oklahoma with our children. I told her that she could not take our children from me. She told me she would have the police come and take them from me. In a rage, I told her that she would be putting a death sentence on whoever tried to take my children away from me. This brought great fear with it, because I knew that I would be forced to do as I had threatened.

    I did not believe that divorce was OK. I did not want our children to live like that. I was so distraught that I did not know what to do. Finally in total desperation, I got on my knees and prayed. I said, God I do not know your name. I have heard of Muhammad, Buddha, and Jesus, but I have no way of telling what is true. So I pray to my Creator and confess to you that I am a terrible sinner. I have always been afraid to give my life to you, but now I beg you to take my life. Please do not ever give it back to me, no matter whatever I do.

    Right then, I felt something flow into me, and I thought my clothes were all wet, But I felt them with my hands and they were not. I did not know what had happened to me, but the anxiety was gone and I was at peace.

    Now I have told you all of this to point this out:

    I did not know who God was. I did not pray in Jesus Name. I did not know that Jesus was God. I did not know there was a Holy Spirit. Before I had claimed I did not know if God was real or not. But when I was desperate enough and had no where else to turn, I found I had enough belief to pray and ask him to take my life. Did I have DOUBT. Yes I had mountains of doubt. But I also had this little mustard seed of belief that it was possible that there was a God. So I would pray to that God. The fact that I was praying was proof that I had some faith. You do not pray to someone that you know is not there.

    THE PRESENCE OF DOUBT DOES NOT PROVE THE ABSENCE OF FAITH

    But I can tell you this, even though I did not pray in Jesus's Name ( or so it seemed), The Lord reached down and forgave me of all my sins, and took my life for His, and He filled me with His Holy Spirit on that very day.

    Now many will say that was impossible. But they only have their doctrine, I have His Holy Spirit as proof that He saved me that day.

    I see now that Jesus has many Names. One can pray to any of His names and be saved. I prayed to my Creator, and Jesus is the Creator of everything that exists. So I was praying to Jesus and did not know it. I was forgiven by Jesus and did not know it. I was filled with his Holy Spirit and did not know it.

    I know now that Jesus does not look at our behavior or our words, but He looks at our hearts. I had finally surrendered to Him and He took my life and has held it in His hands ever since that very day.

    There was no priest there except for Melchizedek, who is a Priest forever. One thing I know, I was not in that room alone. I felt His presence even more sure than when I observe with my eyes that another human is there.

    It was NOT the sermons of any church that had brought me to Jesus. For they had all turned me off. One could say that I was not saved in the church, but in spite of the sinful church I was still saved.

    I listened to the same sermon that every person alive can hear if they have ears to hear. I would look up into the sky, filled with white fluffy clouds, and ask God are you there. I would look out into the night sky and see that there was a Creator, for stars can not create themselves. It would take a fool to think mere lumps of gas are God.

    Romans 1
    , 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
    Psalm 19
    1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. 2 Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. 3 There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. 4 Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun, 5 which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. 6 It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is hidden from its heat.
    I had heard the very sermons of The Lord Jesus, who created everything that exists, to reveal Himself to me and others by His enormous grace.

    The Lord Jesus first revealed Himself to the universe, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And His every act since that very day have been to reveal Himself to us.

    I was not aware that I was in church every time I went running in the woods. Every tree whispered, Lou we have a Creator. Every bird sang of His glory. Every squirrel joined in the chorus. Me the great sinner was there to be saved, and Jesus The great Savior was there to save me.

    In spite of the best efforts of Satan, Jesus saved me.

    In spite of the best efforts of the Mormons, Jesus saved me.

    In spite of the efforts of many self serving preachers, Jesus saved me.

    In spite of me cursing myself to eternal hell and tearing His Bible to shreds, Jesus saved me.

    Who can deny the truth in this Holy Scripture:

    Romans 8
    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


    Enormous Grace to all
    The chief of sinners
    Lou Newton
    Last edited by Lou Newton; September 18, 2014, 01:15 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well you sure got that right my dear friend, and brother, that I love dearly. Not only do I love you, but I also like you more than a lot.

      Roll up your sleeves, The Lord Jesus has lots of work for you to do here on your forum dear friend.

      I want you to know that me, and everyone that I know, has been praying for you, and we will all continue in that pleasurable task.

      We are all privileged to have you as part of our group. But even more, we are so thankful that you welcomed us to your group in the first place.

      We all are certainly aware of how much we need you in this group Travis.

      How valuable are you, well The Lord Jesus would have shed His blood on the cross if you had been the only one to trust Him to save you.

      So you see we all share a stronger bond that natural brothers, for we are spiritual brothers. We are not strangers to the fact that the spiritual is more important than the natural.

      How can we not love one another considering that we all have the same Father. And Jesus is not a common sinful father either. We have the Father that is beyond words to express His wonderfulness.

      You have made my year dear friend !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      PS - sorry it took me so long to see this post. I was gone shopping and then tutoring. I just got home.

      Your brother, Lou
      Last edited by Lou Newton; September 19, 2014, 01:40 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        BTW, now you also know, if you were not already very sure, that once you give your life to Jesus, He will hold you in His hand and He will not leave you go.

        Tell me that is not comforting !!!!!!!!!!

        You should be able to figure out how I learned this. The same way you are learning it.

        Lou

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TennesseeLinda View Post
          There is no "definite" answer to this question, but it plagues me from time to time. Raised Baptist, I was taught you must give your life to the crucified Christ in order to be saved, and yet.....I knew there were people who had no chance to meet him. Tribes in South America. The American Indians before the continent was discovered....and others.

          We are taught that young children go to Heaven if the die before the age of accountability.

          But what about the person whose innermost spirit leads them to live a 'godly' life? Is it possible that their 'spirit' actually aligns with Christ? I believe there is a scripture somewhere that alludes to a person who does not know 'of' Christ being saved by their conscious.

          I would love to hear others thoughts on this. I think it is an area we prefer to keep away from because it is not addressed plainly in the scriptures, but it rises to the surface in my heart from time to time.
          Hi Linda,

          This really good question of yours deserves more than one answer.

          I once read that this missionary went to Africa and went deep into the jungle to a tribe that had not been reached by any white man. This tribe was really isolated and had been heard of but even most of the closest neighbors had never seen them.

          The missionary was not even sure they really existed; but decided if they did he had to tell them about Jesus. He convinced a member of one of the closest tribes to go with him to interpret. They hacked their way into the jungle for days and finally contacted this lost tribe.

          The tribe welcomed them with open arms. The missionary had feared they may be very hostile. The lost tribe fed them and treated them to a welcome ceremony. He found it hard to believe the hospitality they received from these people. He even thought that this tribe was far more hospitable than many churches he had visited back in the US.

          The next day the tribe agreed to sit down to listen to the missionaries sermon about Jesus. As the interpreter spoke the natives got very excited and responded with words of excitement. After many days of exchanging views and answering each others questions, the missionary decided that this God that they believed in had to be none other than Jesus. They were alike in every way and they trusted him to save them in every way. They called Him The Creator in their language.

          The missionary found that one man had bothered to ask The Creator to reveal Himself to him, and He did. He had taught the rest about The Creator and they all worshipped Him

          Abraham lived in a land that worshipped idols. He lived far away from Salem where Melchizedek lived. Yet The Lord Jesus spoke to Abraham through His Holy Spirit and told Abraham to move to live near Salem. Abraham heard and obeyed. Through the children of Abraham we have The Bible, and far more important, The Christ.

          It is good that we preach the gospel of Christ to all He leads us to preach too. But we must remember that God does not need any mediator between any man and Him. For any man that honestly seeks Him will have the truth revealed to him.

          Jesus is a mighty Savior who is willing and able to save anyone that calls on His Name. His name is NOT making the right sounds with our lips, if that was the case we would all be lost that speak English, for we do not call His name the same as Jesus used to the Jews. His Name is His Nature. Anyone who seeks His true nature and calls upon that nature will be saved.

          Lou Newton

          Comment


          • #6
            Lou.......that is the MOST astounding testimony I have ever heard. THANK YOU! This is what I felt in my heart, but have been taught differently. What I was taught made no sense. You do not know what a burden you have lifted. The thought that only those privileged enough to live where Christ was taught would be the only ones let in the pearly gates has been a stumbling block. It made me question all sort of other things I was taught.

            Comment


            • #7
              What a good question, Linda!, and that really is an amazing story, Lou!
              Surely, the Lord has always been able to save whomsoever He will, with or without a "proper" church to attend.

              There are some organizations now who insist that you cannot be saved if you don't pronounce the names of Jehovah or Jesus correctly. Of course they are the only group who can teach you how to pronounce them in a way that God will respond to.

              As if the Most High God cannot recognize one of His children crying out for HIM unless they say His name right...sigh...
              You know not what you do because you know not who He is.
              - Paul Washer
              Satan is the angel of knowledge and he does not waste his time on anything for no reason.
              - Lou Newton

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by TennesseeLinda View Post
                Lou.......that is the MOST astounding testimony I have ever heard. THANK YOU! This is what I felt in my heart, but have been taught differently. What I was taught made no sense. You do not know what a burden you have lifted. The thought that only those privileged enough to live where Christ was taught would be the only ones let in the pearly gates has been a stumbling block. It made me question all sort of other things I was taught.
                Good the hear Linda. You may want to read C S Lewis's "Chronicles of Narnia". There are many spiritual truths that Lewis puts in the form of a story that makes it easy for anyone to see. My kids loved them and so did I. In one of the last books Lewis tells of things that may be a blessing to you about this issue.

                Lou

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TennesseeLinda View Post
                  Lou.......that is the MOST astounding testimony I have ever heard. THANK YOU! This is what I felt in my heart, but have been taught differently. What I was taught made no sense. You do not know what a burden you have lifted. The thought that only those privileged enough to live where Christ was taught would be the only ones let in the pearly gates has been a stumbling block. It made me question all sort of other things I was taught.
                  Originally posted by Jules View Post
                  What a good question, Linda!, and that really is an amazing story, Lou!
                  Surely, the Lord has always been able to save whomsoever He will, with or without a "proper" church to attend.

                  There are some organizations now who insist that you cannot be saved if you don't pronounce the names of Jehovah or Jesus correctly. Of course they are the only group who can teach you how to pronounce them in a way that God will respond to.

                  As if the Most High God cannot recognize one of His children crying out for HIM unless they say His name right...sigh...
                  In agreement. Lou, your testimony was such a blessing to read again. I had the priveledge of hearing you share this about four years ago on another forum. What a wonderful witness to the goodness and grace of God!

                  Blane

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jules View Post
                    What a good question, Linda!, and that really is an amazing story, Lou!
                    Surely, the Lord has always been able to save whomsoever He will, with or without a "proper" church to attend.

                    There are some organizations now who insist that you cannot be saved if you don't pronounce the names of Jehovah or Jesus correctly. Of course they are the only group who can teach you how to pronounce them in a way that God will respond to.

                    As if the Most High God cannot recognize one of His children crying out for HIM unless they say His name right...sigh...
                    Hi Jules,

                    The letter of the law brings death, but The Spirit of the law brings life.

                    But these people certainly do NOT even do as they claim one must. For they pronounce God's Name as Jehovah. That is certainly NOT how the Hebrews pronounced the name of God.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                      Hi Linda,

                      I will try to answer your question by telling about a person who I know better than any other mere human being.

                      My parents went to church on Christmas and Easter. They would go to this Methodist church on some holidays, but would even miss some of them. But they took me to church when I was very young ( maybe around two) and I heard the gospel? preached. I knew I was undone by hearing this message. In fact I can remember standing in between our house and the neighbors house and having, what I now know is a vision, of me preaching in front of a crowd. This scared me to no end. I knew I could not even mention God's name in front of anyone because of fear. But I knew that I was required to preach about God to the world. I came to see much later that God had called me to preach the gospel.

                      Satan, who tries to say he does not even exist, exposes himself by this fear. For this unnatural fear of our Creator can only come from him. Satan has been putting this fear in all men ever since Adam surrendered to Satan, by obeying him, rather than obeying God who had been his friend. This is why we must be born again by His Holy Spirit. For Jesus takes this fear away and replaces it with a fear of not pleasing God.

                      In listening to my history teachers and also learning about the world in other ways, I could see that most people were of the same religion of their birth place. People born in Muslim countries were Muslim, people born a Jew, were Jewish, people born in Christian homes were Christian. I decided at a pretty young age that I was not going to let mere chance decide my religion.

                      I went to that Methodist churches' youth group for a short time because this girl went there and she hinted that I should attend. ( I don't think evangelism was the motive). They had a different preacher and I did not like him even as I met him. I was very uneasy around him and he had some effeminate mannerisms. But I did not accept what he preached as truth at all. In fact I did not like his little sermons at all. I also remember being taught things in their Sunday school that were total lies.

                      I attended a Lutheran church once with a friend and liked that even less. I was asked to a dance at the Catholic school when I was in junior high and had a run in with the local priest, and felt such darkness from him that I never went close to that church again.

                      As I got older I thought about religion but could not see how I ever could find out which one was true. So I mostly ignored religion as much as I could.

                      I remember when I was working at this gas station when I was in high school and this man asked me if I was saved and gave me this pamphlet. The owner, Dutch, was a good hearted man, but one who hated most religions it seemed. He warned me about these kinds of people who hand this stuff out to people. But I took it home and read it. I do not remember a word it said, but it did remind me that I was in severe trouble.

                      I made no thought about religion when I chose my first wife, and certainly did not pray about it. But I married a Mormon. I attended their small church where her father was the preacher. She even invited these couples to our home that we did not know. Looking back I could see that they were coming to evangelize me. They would ask us to pray together, but I was never touched by their prayers.

                      They talked me into attending this Mormon summer camp where "apostles" from the "Melchizedek" priesthood would preach. I listened but was not touched in the least. Their supreme effort was to take me to this very large conference at the Kirkland Temple that had been built by the group when Joseph Smith was alive. In that temple one of our deacons got up and nominated me for the Mormon priesthood. My father in law got up and seconded that nomination. All eyes turned to me and I felt extreme pressure from everyone in the room, but I got up and refused the nomination. Looking back I can see that was a turning point in how they all looked upon me. (consider this great danger that Jesus saved me from even as I was using His great Name as a curse)

                      I would use the name of Jesus and God as curse words often. But when someone would criticize Jesus, I would find myself defending him.

                      One day this man knocked on our door and said his name was Dave Cave and he was from Kentucky. They were from the Assembly of God church and he asked me if I knew Jesus. I said I had heard of him, but certainly did not know Him. He asked me if I would pray with him, I said OK. He led me through the sinners prayer, and I was sincere in confessing that I was a sinner, but could not be sincere in giving my life to him. My wife mocked me many times about this prayer.

                      My sister, who I regarded as a religious nut, called us and invited us to a New Years Eve party at her house. Being totally ignorant of her motives, I accepted her invitation.

                      When we got there, it was not a New Years Eve party like I had envisioned at all. It was simply a gathering of religious nuts in my eyes. I was not hostile to any of them, but was very uncomfortable. I had severe ulcers at the time that gave me severe pain constantly. There was nothing there that I could eat to lesson the pain, so in desperation I ate a piece of pizza. Well that made the pain even worse so I sat down in a chair.

                      My sister had arranged for this elder whose name was Bob Ritzheimer to talk to me ( I had never met him before, Bob please forgive me if I misspelled your name, may God bless you). He started talking to me, but then asked me, Lou are you in pain. I said, yes. He said well do you know that Jesus can heal that pain. I said, if there is a God, I would think he can heal. He asked me if he could pray for me. Thinking he meant we would pray in some private room, I said yes. Well he asked me to stand up and he laid his hands on my stomach and started to pray. Everyone in the house was soon around us with their hands on us and praying out loud or in some crazy sounds. I was extremely uncomfortable. Bob asked me to repeat after him. He said God, I repeated, God if you are there. Apparently my lack of knowledge about God's existence was no problem to Him, because looking back He still showed up.

                      When Bob prayed for my stomach, I was stunned to feel like some fluid had flowed into my stomach. I wondered if this was just some psychological effect. But was even more stunned to see my pain go away. I could only feel like there was a spot in my stomach where the pain had been. But it did not hurt. On the way home this woman that my wife had invited along ( I used to date this woman) asked me about the prayer. I told them that I did not know what had happened, but the pain was totally gone.

                      Months later this woman had come to our house and she asked me about this again. I was shocked to realize that I had not had any pain in months, but had not thought about it once. I wondered, what had taken place. I did not know. I am not one who is easily convinced of anything.

                      My sister gave me a leather Bible for Christmas and I tried to read it. But reading that the Pharisees prayed and read the Bible all day, but that one must be more righteous than them to enter heaven just discouraged me to no end. But my wife was constantly mocking me about me reading the Bible and called me a terrible person. I got so fed up with her mocking that I tore the Bible into shreds and cursed my soul to hell forever. I asked her, are you happy now. At least she shut up about it.

                      Years later my wife announced that she was divorcing me and moving to Oklahoma with our children. I told her that she could not take our children from me. She told me she would have the police come and take them from me. In a rage, I told her that she would be putting a death sentence on whoever tried to take my children away from me. This brought great fear with it, because I knew that I would be forced to do as I had threatened.

                      I did not believe that divorce was OK. I did not want our children to live like that. I was so distraught that I did not know what to do. Finally in total desperation, I got on my knees and prayed. I said, God I do not know your name. I have heard of Muhammad, Buddha, and Jesus, but I have no way of telling what is true. So I pray to my Creator and confess to you that I am a terrible sinner. I have always been afraid to give my life to you, but now I beg you to take my life. Please do not ever give it back to me, no matter whatever I do.

                      Right then, I felt something flow into me, and I thought my clothes were all wet, But I felt them with my hands and they were not. I did not know what had happened to me, but the anxiety was gone and I was at peace.

                      Now I have told you all of this to point this out:

                      I did not know who God was. I did not pray in Jesus Name. I did not know that Jesus was God. I did not know there was a Holy Spirit. Before I had claimed I did not know if God was real or not. But when I was desperate enough and had no where else to turn, I found I had enough belief to pray and ask him to take my life. Did I have DOUBT. Yes I had mountains of doubt. But I also had this little mustard seed of belief that it was possible that there was a God. So I would pray to that God. The fact that I was praying was proof that I had some faith. You do not pray to someone that you know is not there.

                      THE PRESENCE OF DOUBT DOES NOT PROVE THE ABSENCE OF FAITH

                      But I can tell you this, even though I did not pray in Jesus's Name ( or so it seemed), The Lord reached down and forgave me of all my sins, and took my life for His, and He filled me with His Holy Spirit on that very day.

                      Now many will say that was impossible. But they only have their doctrine, I have His Holy Spirit as proof that He saved me that day.

                      I see now that Jesus has many Names. One can pray to any of His names and be saved. I prayed to my Creator, and Jesus is the Creator of everything that exists. So I was praying to Jesus and did not know it. I was forgiven by Jesus and did not know it. I was filled with his Holy Spirit and did not know it.

                      I know now that Jesus does not look at our behavior or our words, but He looks at our hearts. I had finally surrendered to Him and He took my life and has held it in His hands ever since that very day.

                      There was no priest there except for Melchizedek, who is a Priest forever. One thing I know, I was not in that room alone. I felt His presence even more sure than when I observe with my eyes that another human is there.

                      It was NOT the sermons of any church that had brought me to Jesus. For they had all turned me off. One could say that I was not saved in the church, but in spite of the sinful church I was still saved.

                      I listened to the same sermon that every person alive can hear if they have ears to hear. I would look up into the sky, filled with white fluffy clouds, and ask God are you there. I would look out into the night sky and see that there was a Creator, for stars can not create themselves. It would take a fool to think mere lumps of gas are God.





                      I had heard the very sermons of The Lord Jesus, who created everything that exists, to reveal Himself to me and others by His enormous grace.

                      The Lord Jesus first revealed Himself to the universe, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And His every act since that very day have been to reveal Himself to us.

                      I was not aware that I was in church every time I went running in the woods. Every tree whispered, Lou we have a Creator. Every bird sang of His glory. Every squirrel joined in the chorus. Me the great sinner was there to be saved, and Jesus The great Savior was there to save me.

                      In spite of the best efforts of Satan, Jesus saved me.

                      In spite of the best efforts of the Mormons, Jesus saved me.

                      In spite of the efforts of many self serving preachers, Jesus saved me.

                      In spite of me cursing myself to eternal hell and tearing His Bible to shreds, Jesus saved me.

                      Who can deny the truth in this Holy Scripture:



                      Enormous Grace to all
                      The chief of sinners
                      Lou Newton

                      Awesome testimony, Lou.

                      Awesome thread topic, Linda.

                      Blessings to you both...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blane View Post
                        Awesome testimony, Lou.

                        Awesome thread topic, Linda.

                        Blessings to you both...
                        Thanks for the BUMP Blane.

                        I needed to read that again this morning myself.

                        The enemy is always working to stop the work that The Lord would have us do.

                        He has so many that join in his efforts ( or listen to what he says instead of the Word of The Lord ) and so few that resist him and serve the Lord instead.

                        I am still having problems with my computer and also having problems with my blood pressure.

                        I pray and think The Lord may have pointed out the problem only to find in time that it did not help much.

                        Some days I feel better and some days I do not feel very good.

                        I could use everyone's prayers right now to help me hear from The Lord of Mercy. Considering I am blind and can not see, deaf and can not hear, and lame and can not walk, and have nothing that he did not freely give me; I have absolutely no hope outside of Him.

                        Grace to you
                        Lou Newton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Read your answers again. I am so spiritually starved, right now. It was so uplifting.

                          Mrs. Cook is in her own apartment, now. She is gaining strength. This is allowing me a little time on my own.

                          I don't know if you put much credence in natural healing products, but I am not longer taking blood pressure meds. Last year, I started taking hawthorn berry powder. I stopped my blood pressure meds. I just knew when I went to my PCP for my annual check up ....... After a ton of stress, that my blood pressure would be through the roof. Instead, it was normal. My PCP told me I did not have to take the meds any more.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TennesseeLinda View Post
                            Read your answers again. I am so spiritually starved, right now. It was so uplifting.

                            Mrs. Cook is in her own apartment, now. She is gaining strength. This is allowing me a little time on my own.

                            I don't know if you put much credence in natural healing products, but I am not longer taking blood pressure meds. Last year, I started taking hawthorn berry powder. I stopped my blood pressure meds. I just knew when I went to my PCP for my annual check up ....... After a ton of stress, that my blood pressure would be through the roof. Instead, it was normal. My PCP told me I did not have to take the meds any more.
                            Thanks Linda,

                            I do not want to take any man made drugs. They always seem to do as much harm as good.

                            I will try the hawthorn berry powder. What brand do you take ? Thanks.

                            Lou

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
                              Thanks for the BUMP Blane.

                              I needed to read that again this morning myself.

                              The enemy is always working to stop the work that The Lord would have us do.

                              He has so many that join in his efforts ( or listen to what he says instead of the Word of The Lord ) and so few that resist him and serve the Lord instead.

                              I am still having problems with my computer and also having problems with my blood pressure.

                              I pray and think The Lord may have pointed out the problem only to find in time that it did not help much.

                              Some days I feel better and some days I do not feel very good.

                              I could use everyone's prayers right now to help me hear from The Lord of Mercy. Considering I am blind and can not see, deaf and can not hear, and lame and can not walk, and have nothing that he did not freely give me; I have absolutely no hope outside of Him.

                              Grace to you
                              Lou Newton
                              Praying for you Lou. God has blessed me many times through your posts and articles. Keep up the good fight, dear brother.

                              Blane

                              Comment

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