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  • Israeli/Palestinian Conflict

    I want to thank everyone on the forum for the insightful replies to the posts on Blaine’s, “All Israel will be saved? (Romans 9-11)” thread. I especially want to thank Steve for joining in.

    Standard Disclaimer:

    Jesus told the woman at the well, “…for Salvation is from the Jews”.
    End of John 4:22

    If I could choose my genetic heritage I would not hesitate to choose to be a biological son of Abraham. We cannot choose these things. Thankfully I have been grafted in to The Vine.

    My family’s 20th Century Heroine of the Faith is Corrie ten Boom of Haarlem Netherlands. I visited the “Beje”, the house where she grew up. I visited there four different times. I stood in the very hiding place where the ten Booms hid the Jews. It was quite small but very fortified. The Nazis pounded on the brick wall not knowing there were terrified Jews hiding on the other side of the wall. They never found them.
    I would be honored to give my life in defense of the Jews. I don’t say this lightly.
    So… this is not a Jew bashing thread. On the contrary this thread is in defense of the Jews and more-so in defense of truth.

    Standard disclaimer over.

    Many Believers cannot navigate the muddied waters of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict in a meaningful way. My aim in this thread is to help us navigate these turbulent waters.
    Few topics can match this subject in terms of controversy. It is possible to glean the truth out of the mountains of misinformation. It is not easy.

    Some basic groundwork:
    Modern Zionism and especially Theodor Herzl’s brand of Political Zionism cannot be found in Torah. It isn’t there. In fact it is anti Torah in all of its parts. It is not the Zion of Holy Scripture:

    “Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.”
    Psalm 48:1-2
    This is the Zion of Holy Scripture.

    Modern Israel is founded on Herzl’s brand of Political Zionism. Theodor Herzl is the father of Modern Zionism. Herzl was an atheist and his brand of Zionism was/is Political Zionism. There is also Religious Zionism. All of the founding fathers of Modern Israel and prime ministers have been/are Political Zionists. Political Zionism was a small minority in Europe in the 19th century. Most Jews were Religious Zionists like the “Fiddler of the Roof” people.

    Today in Israel every Jewish child entering public school, and almost all private schools, are told they are “Zionists”. The brand of Zionism is political/national. It doesn’t matter if their parents are Torah Jews, non-religious or atheists. This muddies the waters. Not all Jews in Israel agree with Israeli policy and when they disagree their national loyalty is in question. Their “Zionism” is “tarnished”. Zionism covers too much ground to be an accurate label in identifying who the person is or what he believes.
    Modern Zionism (Modern Israeli Government) claims to be the owner of all Jews and Judaism both in the Holy Land and Diaspora. The Pope claims to be the head of all Christendom. Both claims are invalid at all levels. This also muddies the waters.
    Here’s a mudslide: Since the government of Modern Israel claims to represent all Jews worldwide then to disagree or criticize Modern Israel or Modern Zionism is ant-Jewish.

    Modern Israel and Modern Zionism are anathema to Torah and Judaism so it is very possible to criticize Modern Israel and Modern Zionism without being anti-Jew. It is the job of the B'nai B'rith, ADL and many other Zionist organizations to brainwash the masses into believing Modern Zionism and Judaism are one and the same. If they are different then their whole foundation will fall apart. Right now the foundation is strained to the point of cracking apart.

    Another source of mud is the fact that white supremacy groups and other similar hate groups use this information to lump all Jews together and blame all Jews for Zionist atrocities.
    Henry Ford took the bait and funded Hitler with enough money to put a copy of, "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" in almost every German household. There IS NO Jewish conspiracy to rule the world. There is a Banker conspiracy to control the world and some of the bankers are Jewish but it is not a Jewish conspiracy. Henry found this out after WWII and hung his head in shame.

    Here are some myths that are not difficult to dispel using declassified documentation from Israeli, U.S. and British archives:

    A land without a people for a people without a land

    The David VS Goliath scenario

    Arabs were the aggressors

    The 1967 was a defensive war

    Arabs/Palestinians flooded to the Holy Land after the Israelis made the desert bloom

    Arab leaders told the Palestinians to flee in 1948, …the Israeli’s did not chase them out

    Modern Israel is a lamb among wolves

    Palestinians hate the Jews because they are Jews; it is primarily religious in nature

    Israel gave Gaza back to the Palestinians (as a gift) and the Palestinians messed it up

    Palestinians are too stubborn to accept the generous peace deals Israel offered

    Virtually the entire text of Joan Peter’s book, “From Time Immemorial”

    There are more

    This ends part 1

  • #2
    Originally posted by baobab View Post
    Many Believers cannot navigate the muddied waters of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict in a meaningful way. My aim in this thread is to help us navigate these turbulent waters.
    Few topics can match this subject in terms of controversy. It is possible to glean the truth out of the mountains of misinformation. It is not easy.
    I have looked at these mountains of misinformation a number of times, and I always end up walking away overwhelmed by it all. I'm glad you have waded through so much of this, and I look forward to learning what you have discovered, whether I end up fully agreeing at the end of the day or not.

    Like you said elsewhere, paraphrased: The truth is always worth knowing, regardless of how much it may hurt.

    I desire to know the truth, and the Truth. It's a joy to not already know everything yet, to be able to learn and grow.

    Travis

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Baobab

      Many Believers cannot navigate the muddied waters of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict in a meaningful way. My aim in this thread is to help us navigate these turbulent waters.
      Few topics can match this subject in terms of controversy. It is possible to glean the truth out of the mountains of misinformation. It is not easy.


      Originally posted by Travis View Post
      I have looked at these mountains of misinformation a number of times, and I always end up walking away overwhelmed by it all. I'm glad you have waded through so much of this, and I look forward to learning what you have discovered, whether I end up fully agreeing at the end of the day or not.

      Like you said elsewhere, paraphrased: The truth is always worth knowing, regardless of how much it may hurt.

      I desire to know the truth, and the Truth. It's a joy to not already know everything yet, to be able to learn and grow.

      Travis
      A hearty amen to Travis's statement. This is a fascinating topic to me. It's also a topic in which I have more questions than answers. Quite frankly, it's a topic in which I must admit I know very little about.

      There was a time, in the early days of another forum, in which my mind would literally shut down when I would try to read through the lengthy and sometimes heated debates that often followed this thread topic. By shut down, I mean that some degree of spiritual attack was being waged against my ability to concentrate regarding this subject. It was as though my mind was sealed off to understanding or receiving additional information on this topic. I didn't have strong feelings about either side of this controversy, yet I was never able to fully enter into such discussions. I hope to glean truth and understanding from this thread. Thanks for starting it Baobab.

      Blane

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello my friends,
        Baobab you seem to have it very well defined my friend. I agree with you so far.
        Travis, I like the way you put it.
        Thanks Baobab for starting this thread.
        The Palestinian Arabs are much like the minorities we have here in the US. We give them vast opportunities and mostly they either destroy the facilities or squander the benefits.
        Look how much aid in money they have been given and the leaders keep it for themselves and stir up the population to incite more unrest.
        How does a gazelle or a zebra make peace with a hyena or a lion? Not going to happen since the only thing on the mind of the hyena and the lion is to eat his new friends. ..... Steve
        Last edited by Steve Hollander; December 14, 2014, 06:11 AM. Reason: didn't finish

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Blane View Post
          There was a time, in the early days of another forum, in which my mind would literally shut down when I would try to read through the lengthy and sometimes heated debates that often followed this thread topic. By shut down, I mean that some degree of spiritual attack was being waged against my ability to concentrate regarding this subject. It was as though my mind was sealed off to understanding or receiving additional information on this topic.

          Blane
          To God's glory, brother. =)

          It is the glory of God to conceal a thing. Pro 25:2

          He is a revealer of secrets. Dan 2:47

          Comment


          • #6
            Gazelles Zebras and Lions

            Steve wrote:
            “The Palestinian Arabs are much like the minorities we have here in the US. We give them vast opportunities and mostly they either destroy the facilities or squander the benefits.
            Look how much aid in money they have been given and the leaders keep it for themselves and stir up the population to incite more unrest.
            How does a gazelle or a zebra make peace with a hyena or a lion? Not going to happen since the only thing on the mind of the hyena and the lion is to eat his new friends. ..... Steve”

            I’m glad you brought this up. It is one of the myths the Zionist press spends millions of dollars on to keep it alive.
            In 2007 Israel pulled all the Jews out of Gaza. The press portrayed this as a generous offering to the Palestinians. A piece of land they could call their own. In reality Gaza was given to the 1.5 million inhabitants as the world’s largest open air prison. Since 2007 Gaza has been blockaded by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) by land, air and sea. Israel only allows enough goods in to Gaza to keep the people alive and nothing more.
            http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html

            Since 1948, the Zionist leaders never had any intention of making peace with non-Jews in the Holy land. Every peace talk was a sham ending with the press’s stories of how the stubborn Palestinians refuse to compromise on Israel’s generous deals. During the Oslo Accord 700 Palestinian homes were bulldozed in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin came a little bit too close for peace and was assassinated by a rightwing radical Orthodox Jew.

            Palestinians under Israel occupation (Gaza, East Jerusalem and West Bank) do not have the same opportunities minorities in in America have. There is no comparison. What meager aid they get keeps them on a subsistence level and they have no vote in Israeli affairs. They are not citizens of any country.

            The Palestinians with Israeli citizenship who live in Israel “proper” fare better than those under military occupation. They can vote and they have a representative in the Knesset. They are subject to a few dozen laws that discriminate against them. Jews in Israel can travel in and out of the country at will. Palestinian Israeli citizens cannot. If they leave they face the probability of not being allowed back in to the country even though their roots go back for centuries. Any Jew in the world can become an Israeli citizen unless they are Messianic Jews. They can visit but have to go back where they came from. The exceptions are very rare.

            Gazelles Zebras and Lions
            Before British Mandate Palestine, Arabs Jews and Christians lived in relative peace in the Holy Land. This all changed when Herzl ilk Zionists showed up. Even before 1948 Lehi, Stern Gang, and Irgun committed acts of terrorism against the local Arabs/Palestinians. The Zionists were the aggressors. From these terror groups came several of Israel’s Prime Ministers.
            In an interview published in Le Monde on 28 February 1968, Israeli Chief of Staff Rabin said this: “I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent into Sinai on 14 May would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.”

            On 14 April 1971, a report in the Israeli newspaper Al-Hamishmar contained the following statement by Mordecai Bentov, a member of the wartime national government. “The entire story of the danger of extermination was invented in every detail and exaggerated a posteriori to justify the annexation of new Arab territory.”
            In the spring of 1972, General Matetiyahu Peled, Chief of Logistical Command during the war and one of 12 members of Israel’s General Staff, addressed a political literary club in Tel Aviv. He said: “The thesis according to which the danger of genocide hung over us in June 1967, and according to which Israel was fighting for her very physical survival, was nothing but a bluff which was born and bred after the war.”

            The above quotes are from:
            http://www.alanhart.net/the-lies-abo...n-the-truth-2/
            Alan Hart was a personal friend of Golda Meir

            After the war General Peled spoke to the War department and said in so many words that if we institute a brutal military occupation of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem in will eat the nation from within and leave Israel morally bankrupt. He warned that the people would not take it lightly and a generation of angry Palestinians would emerge. General Peled was correct.

            The MSM portrays the conflict as a religious conflict. This is not even close to the heart of the problem. After the Dar Yassin massacre ~800,000 Palestinians fled in fear to Gaza, Lebanon, Jordan and other places. They were not allowed to return to the homes they fled. Many who now live lives as refugees still have the key to their front doors.
            This time is referred to as the Nakba (catastrophe). This is a huge issue for the Palestinians and it has never been allowed to be confronted or brought to the bargaining table at the sham peace talks.

            General Peled’s granddaughter Smadar Elhanan was killed by a suicide bomber in Jerusalem.
            Smadar’s great grandfather Avraham Katsnelson was a signatory to Israel’s declaration of independence.
            Here is an informative ~30 minute video by Miko Peled (Smadar’s uncle):
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9wSwFNtf0s

            Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
            End of part 2

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow a huge amount of information. Obviously Baobab you are much more informed than I am and most of us likely.
              What is the DarYassin massacre?
              I am not surprised at all about what you say. But the Arab leaders get lots of money and I bet it doesn't make it to the people.

              Comment


              • #8
                $$$$$$$$$

                Steve wrote:
                “But the Arab leaders get lots of money and I bet it doesn't make it to the people.”

                A few leaders do get money but it is insignificant compared to the billions of American dollars given to Israel every year. (This does not include unpaid loans the U.S. Congress routinely forgives) The Arabs/Palestinians do not get lots of money compared to Israel.

                Where there is money there is corruption and Arabs are not immune. The Zionist corruption has infiltrated the entire free world. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) controls U.S. policy on Middle East affairs and many other facets of American politics. Any presidential candidate has to be vetted through AIPAC before the MSM will portray them in a positive light. This is not an exaggeration.

                Canada, Australia, France and others have their own version of AIPAC. Some Arab leaders and organizations might dream of having such power over Washington but it is only a dream and not a reality.
                Mahmoud Abbas of the Fatah party is president of the Palestinian Authority and leads from Ramallah in the West Bank. He has no influence over Gaza which is under Hamas leadership. Abbas lives quite well and he tells the Palestinians some of the things they want to hear but his actions speak otherwise. Abbas is despised in Gaza. Abbas does what Israel wants him to do at the expense of his people. He isn’t stupid. The leaders that show too much progress in bringing Palestinians closer to self-determination get assassinated.

                Deir (or Der) Yassin was one of several massacres carried out by Modern Zionists.
                http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

                About 400 Arab villages were wiped out and do not exist on Modern Israeli maps. Many were flattened and turned into Israeli parks and renamed. There is a major undertaking by Zionists to erase the collective memory of the Palestinians.
                Remember, Modern Zionism and Judaism are two separate entities. Modern Zionism wrongfully uses the name Jewish but is not Jewish. Most of us have been swayed a little if not a lot by the relentless lies told day in and day out by the MSN concerning this conflict and concerning other areas also.

                Those who got their information from people such as Brigitte Gabriel, David Horovitz, Caroline Glick and Walid Shoebat have been lied to big time. There is much money to be made for Zionist cheerleaders.

                Both sides tell some truth and both sides tell some fibs. The local Palestinian voice compared to the global Zionist voce can be compared to a mosquito buzz and lightning.

                Modern Israeli policy/action is currently the number one source of Jew hatred worldwide. This is not fair to the Jews in Diaspora, the Arabs or even Israeli citizens. The leaders of Modern Zionism (most of the Knesset) and an increasing amount of her citizens are incapable of self-criticism. Netanyahu is the embodiment of this. He is leading Israel to her own destruction. Remarkably, the Israeli press is more open to Israeli criticism than the Western press and particularly the U.S. press. It makes sense. America is Israel’s largest overseas outpost and her bread and butter. This sounds ridiculous but it is true. The Patriot Act was freedom committing suicide. Why would an American Congress burn the U.S. Constitution by voting for such a thing? The answer is the U.S. Congress is not in control of itself. Any lawmaker in Washington that dare raise an eyebrow to AIPAC is out. Career over. This may change someday but not likely. Washington is set up as to be immune from internal reform. There is a 300 pound Gorilla running rampant in the House and Senate but none dare acknowledge it.

                Modern Israel which is not a democracy is the worst thing to happen to the Jews since WWII.

                The bridge up ahead is out but the politically correct media dare not say so.
                Pray for all the people who live in the Holy Land. All are equally precious in God’s eyes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you Baobab for the information. I am completely in the dark about most of this.
                  How do they wield such power?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by baobab View Post
                    Steve wrote:
                    “But the Arab leaders get lots of money and I bet it doesn't make it to the people.”

                    A few leaders do get money but it is insignificant compared to the billions of American dollars given to Israel every year. (This does not include unpaid loans the U.S. Congress routinely forgives) The Arabs/Palestinians do not get lots of money compared to Israel.

                    Where there is money there is corruption and Arabs are not immune. The Zionist corruption has infiltrated the entire free world. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) controls U.S. policy on Middle East affairs and many other facets of American politics. Any presidential candidate has to be vetted through AIPAC before the MSM will portray them in a positive light. This is not an exaggeration.

                    Canada, Australia, France and others have their own version of AIPAC. Some Arab leaders and organizations might dream of having such power over Washington but it is only a dream and not a reality.
                    Mahmoud Abbas of the Fatah party is president of the Palestinian Authority and leads from Ramallah in the West Bank. He has no influence over Gaza which is under Hamas leadership. Abbas lives quite well and he tells the Palestinians some of the things they want to hear but his actions speak otherwise. Abbas is despised in Gaza. Abbas does what Israel wants him to do at the expense of his people. He isn’t stupid. The leaders that show too much progress in bringing Palestinians closer to self-determination get assassinated.

                    Deir (or Der) Yassin was one of several massacres carried out by Modern Zionists.
                    http://www.deiryassin.org/mas.html

                    About 400 Arab villages were wiped out and do not exist on Modern Israeli maps. Many were flattened and turned into Israeli parks and renamed. There is a major undertaking by Zionists to erase the collective memory of the Palestinians.
                    Remember, Modern Zionism and Judaism are two separate entities. Modern Zionism wrongfully uses the name Jewish but is not Jewish. Most of us have been swayed a little if not a lot by the relentless lies told day in and day out by the MSN concerning this conflict and concerning other areas also.

                    Those who got their information from people such as Brigitte Gabriel, David Horovitz, Caroline Glick and Walid Shoebat have been lied to big time. There is much money to be made for Zionist cheerleaders.

                    Both sides tell some truth and both sides tell some fibs. The local Palestinian voice compared to the global Zionist voce can be compared to a mosquito buzz and lightning.

                    Modern Israeli policy/action is currently the number one source of Jew hatred worldwide. This is not fair to the Jews in Diaspora, the Arabs or even Israeli citizens. The leaders of Modern Zionism (most of the Knesset) and an increasing amount of her citizens are incapable of self-criticism. Netanyahu is the embodiment of this. He is leading Israel to her own destruction. Remarkably, the Israeli press is more open to Israeli criticism than the Western press and particularly the U.S. press. It makes sense. America is Israel’s largest overseas outpost and her bread and butter. This sounds ridiculous but it is true. The Patriot Act was freedom committing suicide. Why would an American Congress burn the U.S. Constitution by voting for such a thing? The answer is the U.S. Congress is not in control of itself. Any lawmaker in Washington that dare raise an eyebrow to AIPAC is out. Career over. This may change someday but not likely. Washington is set up as to be immune from internal reform. There is a 300 pound Gorilla running rampant in the House and Senate but none dare acknowledge it.

                    Modern Israel which is not a democracy is the worst thing to happen to the Jews since WWII.

                    The bridge up ahead is out but the politically correct media dare not say so.
                    Pray for all the people who live in the Holy Land. All are equally precious in God’s eyes.
                    Hi Baobab,

                    Thanks again for starting this thread. I'm looking forward to prayerfully considering this massive topic once again. It really helps to have someone break the complexities of this overwhelming amount of information down into smaller pieces.

                    A couple of questions for you...

                    1. Could you elaborate on the statement above that I highlighted in blue?

                    2. The formation of The United Nations and the birth of modern Israel occured just a few months apart. Do you feel these events are related in any way? If so, how?

                    Blane

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Baobab,
                      Thanks again for opening my eyes to the real situation in Israel today.

                      I apologize for my being so forthcoming with a negative attitude towards the Arabs as if they were my personal enemies and they are not. As they are my neighbors and I am commanded to love them as myself so I have failed miserably in that effort.

                      I truly repent and I am open to being made aware of how it really is and how the AIPAC gets so much power to control governments.

                      Once again thank you and I offer my apologies to all here for being so gruff as my brother Lou puts it.

                      Blessings ..... Steve

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh

                        Steve asks:
                        “How do they (Modern Political Zionists) wield such power?”

                        Below is snapshot of just a part of their power base:
                        This is a list of dual Israeli/American citizens. These people are citizens of both Modern Israel and the United States

                        Chief of Staff to Obama (Former) – Rahm Emanuel
                        Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
                        Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
                        Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
                        Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
                        Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
                        National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
                        Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
                        White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
                        Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
                        Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
                        U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
                        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
                        UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
                        Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
                        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
                        Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
                        Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
                        Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
                        Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
                        White House Political Director – Ken Melman
                        National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
                        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
                        Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
                        National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
                        President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
                        Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
                        Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
                        White House Speechwriter – David Frum
                        White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
                        Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
                        Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
                        Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
                        Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis

                        Currently every member of the U.S. Supreme Court is either Catholic or Jewish. Catholics and Jews are able to make sound moral judgment in governmental affairs. U.S. Supreme Court Injustices have not done this. They let the executive office and the law makers trash the Constitution while they play PR games and grow older. If just one elected U.S. government official in high places had dual citizenship with the U.S. and an Arab country there would be a media firestorm of the likes we have not seen.
                        There is a loyalty gap the size of the Grand Canyon in the U.S. Supreme Court. This leaves an open door for the rest of the government to run rampant over the U.S. Constitution without consent of the voters. They just adore electronic voting machines.

                        Without the Holocaust there would probably be no Modern Israel. The world turned a blind eye to the unspeakable suffering of the non-Jews in the Holy Land in 1948 because of the previous suffering of the Jews under Nazi Germany. The Zionist leaders collaborated with Hitler. They had declared a world-wide boycott on German exports. Germany was already burdened with gargantuan war reparations from WWI. Hitler agreed to the transfer agreement which let certain privileged Zionist Jews move to Palestine and keep some of their assets with them. In return they would buy German goods and support the German economy. Then they did the unthinkable. The Zionist Congress blocked every possible effort to rescue Jews from the death camps. The bloodier the holocaust the easier to play on international guilt as they ravaged the Holy Land. It worked. Whenever someone would call Israel’s actions in to question the Zionists would simply reply, “Holocaust!” Remember, I am slamming Modern Zionism, not the Jews.
                        During WWII the U.S. put tight restrictions on immigration quotas. President Truman offered to lift the quota on European Jews and allow them to come to America. The Zionists blocked this effort.

                        "If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
                        -- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's “Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation”). David Ben-Gurion was an atheist.

                        Another significant factor that enabled religious America to accept this as OK is the Scofield Reference Bible. Zionists commissioned Cyrus Scofield to write pro Zionist footnotes in his reference Bible. This became the most popular Bible in American seminaries. Before 1948 many believers actually thought that Israel must become a secular nation-state before Jesus returns. This is nowhere to be found in the New Testament other than footnotes. In 1984 when Israel declared statehood, the jubilee among a large sector of American churchianity drowned out the actual facts on the ground and the sordid details of Zionist shenanigans.
                        This is part of how Modern Zionists became so powerful in the 20th century to present.

                        Blane asked about:
                        “Modern Israel which is not a democracy is the worst thing to happen to the Jews since WWII.”

                        Modern Israel is not a democracy. It is apartheid. Non Jewish citizens of Israel do not have the same rights as Israeli Jewish citizens. The millions under occupation have no rights at all. Because of this many people hate what Israel has been doing to non-Jews in the Holy Land. People make the mistake of blaming all Jews on this as if it were actually a “Jewish” undertaking. Modern Israel has given Jews across the globe a bad name and in some cases put their lives in peril where there would not have been peril. Many rabbis and religious Jews of Europe saw the writing on the wall. They knew what Herzl’s Zionists were up to and knew their plan would imperil Jews everywhere. They were right. Everywhere modern Zionism goes there is a trail of blood in its wake. Modern Zionism is an enemy of the Jews. Modern Israel embodies Modern Zionism.

                        Blane asks:
                        “The formation of The United Nations and the birth of modern Israel occured just a few months apart. Do you feel these events are related in any way? If so, how?

                        I don’t know about the timing of the two. I do know since the UN has influence over public opinion it is most likely the Zionists influenced the formation of the U.N.

                        The partition agreement was at least three months away from being ratified. This is absurd because the United Nations had no right to even consider giving Arab land to European foreigners. The partition agreement would guarantee the best real-estate in the Holy Land to the Zionists and the scraps would go to the Palestinians. There would be two states. The Zionists never considered letting any Palestinians live in peace in the Holy Land but the partition plan would at least give them some land “legally”. To ensure a positive outcome Zionists in power bribed or strong -armed several influential states into voting in favor of the Zionists. One of the tactics was the threat of losing Marshall Plan funds. The Marshal Plan was a big deal. Anything on the magnitude of billions of post war dollars was a big deal. Israel went ahead and declared statehood before the UN resolution was resolved.
                        American law requires a waiting period for new states before they are endorsed/recognized by the U.S. government. They have to meet certain requirements that cannot be ascertained until after a new nation declares statehood. Truman was up for re-election. The Zionists had the power to pull the rug out from underneath him. Truman violated U.S. law by recognizing the state of Israel immediately after independence was declared. The UN was stunned. The UN will be even more stunned when Jesus returns but they were shocked at Truman’s actions.

                        It is quite fitting the Zionists chose the Hexagram for their symbol. The symbol for Judaism is the Menorah.

                        Steve,
                        You are good people.
                        What you wrote needed to be brought to light and commented on.
                        You have a good heart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thank you Baobab for such detailed information on the history of what appears to be an occupation.
                          Thank you for your kind words.
                          I am very disappointed that Israel is not the good guy. Being a Jew I always related Israel or modern day Israel, to Judaism or a Jewish state. Apparently it is not.
                          Although I don't consider myself a Judaic Jew because I am messianic. So to me Judaism is another false religion.
                          But since the land has been usurped by brutal men what end do they seek? Besides the obvious ones. If there is no interest in GOD'S history with the land, what else is the motivation.
                          Thanks for the information again and please if you would, keep it coming. I mean would please continue to share with us?
                          Blessings. ..... Steve

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
                            Thank you Baobab for such detailed information on the history of what appears to be an occupation.
                            Thank you for your kind words.
                            I am very disappointed that Israel is not the good guy. Being a Jew I always related Israel or modern day Israel, to Judaism or a Jewish state. Apparently it is not.
                            Although I don't consider myself a Judaic Jew because I am messianic. So to me Judaism is another false religion.
                            But since the land has been usurped by brutal men what end do they seek? Besides the obvious ones. If there is no interest in GOD'S history with the land, what else is the motivation.
                            Thanks for the information again and please if you would, keep it coming. I mean would please continue to share with us?
                            Blessings. ..... Steve
                            My ancestry is almost exclusively German. Though my heritage came to the US even before WWI, I bet many of my somewhat distant cousins, etc were part of the people that killed your people. My last name actually is nearly synonymous with the first name Adolf.

                            I can't change any of that, and I am not proud of what "my people" did and have done.

                            But, all things are new in Christ Jesus. I am glad that despite all of us having very different heritages, we can come together because of our identity in Christ Jesus.

                            Those men and women who run this world system, regardless of their heritage, are all evil (as far as I know). I know those in power in the US are corrupt. I know those who are in power in Russia are corrupt. I know those who are in power in China are corrupt. It isn't much surprise to me to find out that those in Power in Israel are corrupt as well. I think most of us common folk across the board, regardless of our country, are not aware of all these things and are not guilty of the same crimes our governments commit, even if we must pay the price for much of it.

                            I agree with Baobab

                            "Pray for all the people who live in the Holy Land. All are equally precious in God’s eyes."

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                            • #15
                              Superman Faster than a Speeding Bullet

                              Steve asks:
                              “But since the land has been usurped by brutal men what end do they seek?”

                              I am not a comic book fan but I do remember one story about Superman. The public adored Superman and he never hesitated to save the world from catastrophe. One day Superman started doing very bad things. He terrified the people and he was a menace that needed to be destroyed. How did this happen?
                              Superman hadn’t changed. His enemy posed as Superman and did bad things so the people would hate him.

                              For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
                              Zechariah 2:8

                              Nobody on earth who has not been made clean by the Blood of the Lamb is any match for the devil. The pitiful Zionist leaders are mere pawns in the devil’s schemes. Jesus told the woman at the well, “…for salvation is from the Jews”.
                              This one sentence alone, even if there were no others, puts the Jews on Satan’s most wanted hit list.
                              What is precious to God is despised by His enemy. It is the enemy’s desire to take what is precious to God and make it vile in the sight of mankind. This is the true end.

                              People have choices. The Zionist leaders choose to lie, kill, cheat and destroy all in the name of Israel, Jerusalem, and Jew. The founder of Modern Zionism was an atheist. Israel’s first Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion was an atheist yet claimed to take the Holy Land for God’s chosen people even though he did not believe in God. The word insanity comes to mind.

                              Another telling item that points to the ends of the means concerning Modern Israel is the hexagram. Many Orthodox Jews were outraged that such an important occult symbol (the hexagram represents 666) would be used on the flag as a symbol for Israel. The closest Biblical reference to the “Star of David” which David would have never used is:

                              Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the star of your god Remphan, figures which ye made to worship them: and I will carry you away beyond Babylon
                              Acts 7:42-43

                              Amos 5:26-27 But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord...
                              Amos 5:26-27
                              It is more than likely the star of the god Remphan is the hexagram.

                              It appears the man of sin will sit somewhere in the Holy Land and blaspheme all that is Holy from there. This seems to be the direction the Israeli government is headed. The Orthodox Zionists hold the Talmud on equal if not higher in authority than Torah. They have plans to rebuild the temple and initiate animal sacrifices there.

                              When people’s conscious have been seared they are led around as if by hooks in their noses wherever the evil one would lead them.

                              There are many Jewish Israeli citizens whose conscious have not been seared.
                              There are several Israeli human rights groups in Israel that bring these things to public awareness but their audience is small. They know that Israel is making dangerous choices.

                              The extreme radical right has been voted in by the people and Netanyahu is their man. Their end is Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel). This refers to all the Land King David conquered which encompasses Eastern Egypt, parts of Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. The entire Eretz Yisrael area only lasted for about 70 years. This is another reason AIPAC bullies the state department into giving the Defense Department the greenlight to instigate meaningless wars of aggression in the Middle East. Israel wants to be surrounded by soft targets and small puppet states and the U.S. is providing them at the expense of the Arab world. ISIS was no accident. Iraq is in the process of a plan that was on the drawing board 30 years ago. Split Iraq into three parts. One part for the Shiites, one for the Sunni and one for the Kurds. Syria is allied with Iran. This put Syria in the cross hairs of the U.S war machine. Destroy Syria and then go after Iran. No Arab country in the Middle East has been a threat to America.
                              Israel has had nukes since the 1950’s. No Arab country in the Middle East would be stupid enough to provoke Israel to the point of getting themselves nuked. The cry of self-defense is growing old.

                              These are interesting times. I will go so far as to say ~90% of what passes for eschatology in American churchianity is way off the mark. I don’t see Modern Israel being a nation state by the time Jesus returns yet Israel will still be a nation.
                              Some of the Pharisees of Jesus’ time had Torah memorized yet they still didn’t recognize when Messiah visited them face to face. I think it is so today.

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