Seeing spiritual realities in this physical realm

[Lou Newton]

Blane, I really like this question. Now that I've come back to it, I will be thinking about it some more.

Another natural thing that parallels the Genesis 1 account is the rebirth of stars. It's theorized that a second- or third-generation star is required to support life. So a star (seed) had to die to bring forth stars (many seeds) that provided the elements necessary for life on earth.

It is another "from the beginning", evident before even the creation of herbs and creatures bearing seed on earth, that God is the Seed, and He would die and bring forth many seeds.

Amen Barry,

1 John 4 Living Bible (TLB)4 Dearly loved friends, don’t always believe everything you hear just because someone says it is a message from God: test it first to see if it really is. For there are many false teachers around, ² and the way to find out if their message is from the Holy Spirit is to ask: Does it really agree that Jesus Christ, God’s Son, actually became man with a human body? If so, then the message is from God. ³ If not, the message is not from God but from one who is against Christ, like the “Antichrist” you have heard about who is going to come, and his attitude of enmity against Christ is already abroad in the world.

Of course if Jesus did become a human, then it also means that He would die. For all humans die.

The whole message of Genesis 1 is that something innocent had to die for us to have life.

In every passage God is revealing to us that He would leave heaven and come to our abode and be born of a woman to sacrifice Himself for us.

Everyone that teaches that there was no natural death before Adam sinned, is teaching the message of antichrist.

Of course there was no real death ( spiritual death) before Adam sinned.

Jesus called natural death ( sleep ) when the little girl had died. ( and we know that Jesus can not lie in any way ) That is because she was not eternally dead, but only her flesh had died. Real death is eternal death, or death in the spirit.

We see this example when we pick a rose off of the bush. The rose still looks alive, but it is certainly dead. No one can keep that rose alive. It will wither and look dead in a very short time. WHY, because it has been separated from the "vine" that gave it life.

BUT, even if a rose is left on the vine, it will eventually wither and look dead in it's season.

But glory to God, it will bud again in the spring and bloom again.

Men are like the rose. If we separate ourselves from the Vine ( Jesus)we will look alive. But that person is really dead. In time they will wither and die and be dead forever.

But if we cling to The Vine ( Jesus ) we will live in Him. But even those who cling to Jesus will eventually wither and die in the flesh. They will look dead, but be alive. For they will have eternal life in Christ.

So many look alive, but they are the walking dead. For they have separated themselves from Jesus.

Also a few look dead at their funeral, but they are alive forever. For they have the Creator of Life living in them. He is the One who can not die in the Spirit. For He is LIFE.

Lou Newton

[Lou Newton]

That is surely the most excellent example, Lou.

Not only was it God's plan, but a fundamental truth about the nature of God. He is eternal and immortal. He cannot die in eternity. Yet He is the Seed of Life.

When a seed dies it brings forth many seeds.

How can God be eternal and immortal, and yet die and bring forth many seeds?

He has shown us how in Jesus Christ. Only God can withstand His own judgment and wrath. He has made a way, where it would seem impossible, for the temporal (corruptible) to put on the eternal (incorruptible), and the dead and dying (mortal) to put on immortality, and the unrighteous to put on righteousness. For Life to spring forth from a Seed.

He has shown this spiritual truth in nature from the beginning, as the seed and the cycle of life and death.

Amen Barry.

It is the plan of Satan to convince anyone who will believe it, that there was no natural death in the beginning. If someone decides to follow Christ, then Satan wants them to think that Jesus did not really want to die for them. Satan wants to plant the seed, that Jesus said to Himself, "now that Adam sinned, DARN, I will have to die for men now". Like it was plan B. Satan wants men to think that Jesus died for us because he had to, NOT because He wanted to.

But that is NOT the Truth. Jesus decided to shed His blood for us before He created the world. It was not plan B, but plan A. Jesus did it this way, because that was His will and good pleasure to die for us. That is the way Jesus wanted to do it from the very beginning. Jesus did it this way so that we would know that he loves us.

Jesus said to Himself, "how will man know that I love him after I create men". He then said, "I will become a man myself and shed my blood on a cross, then men will know that I love them".

Satan wants to dilute that love anyway he can.

Ephesians 1:4-5Living Bible (TLB)⁴ Long ago, even before he made the world, God chose us to be his very own through what Christ would do for us; he decided then to make us holy in his eyes, without a single fault—we who stand before him covered with his love. ⁵ His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into his own family by sending Jesus Christ to die for us. And he did this because he wanted to!

Lou Newton

[Baruch]

This may end up being an unusual thread, but we can always nix it, so here goes. As we know, God often chooses to manifest spiritual truths by allowing us to first witness things or patterns in the physical realm.

I had a strange thought today while driving along the interstate. I saw a buzzard sitting on a deer carcass and figured it was getting ready to feast. The strange thought I had went something like this: "Lord, why did you create scavenger birds? They actually PREFER rotting flesh over fresh meat! How can they even digest it without getting sick? What were you trying to communicate (if anything) to us by creating scavenger birds?"

Anyway, a couple thoughts came to mind.

1. Like maggots, scavenger birds help to rid the earth of rotting flesh.

2. Scavenger birds personify evil spirits. Demons feed on the flesh nature of mankind because God told Satan in the Garden of Eden that he would eat dust all the days of his life.

Anyway, regardless of why God chose to create such strange birds as buzzards, this might make for an edifying topic. That is, what illustrations has God given us in the physical realm that are needful for us to associate with spiritual realities?

Romans 1:18-21 surely comes into play on this topic. Maybe there are many more. What are your thoughts?

Blane

Blane, I really like this question. Now that I've come back to it, I will be thinking about it some more.

Another natural thing that parallels the Genesis 1 account is the rebirth of stars. It's theorized that a second- or third-generation star is required to support life. So a star (seed) had to die to bring forth stars (many seeds) that provided the elements necessary for life on earth.

It is another "from the beginning", evident before even the creation of herbs and creatures bearing seed on earth, that God is the Seed, and He would die and bring forth many seeds.

[Baruch]

John 12

Jesus Predicts His Death

²⁰ Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. ²¹ They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” ²² Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.
²³ Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. ²⁴ Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. ²⁵ Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. ²⁶ Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
²⁷ “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. ²⁸ Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” ²⁹ The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
³⁰ Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. ³¹ Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. ³² And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” ³³ He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
³⁴ The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
³⁵ Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. ³⁶ Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.

Every seed must fall to the earth and die to bring forth life.

This is a spiritual law and a natural law that has always been true.

The creation declares the glory of God. The glory of God is the fact that he was born of a woman and became flesh to shed his blood for us.

Jesus is the Seed that had to die and be buried in the ground to bring forth life.

Jesus had to die for us to have life.

This also proves that there was always natural death on the earth from the very first plants till today.

For to be any different would be to say that Jesus did not have to die from the beginning.

But that was always God's plan from the very beginning. To become flesh and die for us, for us to have eternal life.

Lou Newton

That is surely the most excellent example, Lou.

Not only was it God's plan, but a fundamental truth about the nature of God. He is eternal and immortal. He cannot die in eternity. Yet He is the Seed of Life.

When a seed dies it brings forth many seeds.

How can God be eternal and immortal, and yet die and bring forth many seeds?

He has shown us how in Jesus Christ. Only God can withstand His own judgment and wrath. He has made a way, where it would seem impossible, for the temporal (corruptible) to put on the eternal (incorruptible), and the dead and dying (mortal) to put on immortality, and the unrighteous to put on righteousness. For Life to spring forth from a Seed.

He has shown this spiritual truth in nature from the beginning, as the seed and the cycle of life and death.

[Lou Newton]

Bravo Lou. This is probably the most significant example in scripture of a physical reality portraying a greater spiritual truth. Only God can bring life out of death.

Blane

Natural death was from the very beginning.

Stars were born and died to form other stars that had heavy elements that were needed for life. The stars had to die for us to have natural life

The earth produced plants that produced seeds that fell to the earth and died to produce other plants from those seeds.

The earth produced animals that were born and then died. They had to die for us to have life. This is the mystery I have mentioned. How and why did the animals have to die for us to have life.

Natural death was from the very beginning to show man that someone innocent had to die for us to have eternal life.

One of the greatest errors preached in the church is for most to claim that there was no death until Adam sinned. There was natural death from the beginning. But the sin of Adam brought spiritual death, or real death. Jesus called natural death, "sleep", for it is only our flesh that dies.

Lou Newton

[Blane]

John 12


Every seed must fall to the earth and die to bring forth life.

This is a spiritual law and a natural law that has always been true.

The creation declares the glory of God. The glory of God is the fact that he was born of a woman and became flesh to shed his blood for us.

Jesus is the Seed that had to die and be buried in the ground to bring forth life.

Jesus had to die for us to have life.

This also proves that there was always natural death on the earth from the very first plants till today.

For to be any different would be to say that Jesus did not have to die from the beginning.

But that was always God's plan from the very beginning. To become flesh and die for us, for us to have eternal life.

Lou Newton

Bravo Lou. This is probably the most significant example in scripture of a physical reality portraying a greater spiritual truth. Only God can bring life out of death.

Blane

[Lou Newton]

John 12

Jesus Predicts His Death

²⁰ Now there were some Greeks among those who went up to worship at the festival. ²¹ They came to Philip, who was from Bethsaida in Galilee, with a request. “Sir,” they said, “we would like to see Jesus.” ²² Philip went to tell Andrew; Andrew and Philip in turn told Jesus.
²³ Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. ²⁴ Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. ²⁵ Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. ²⁶ Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
²⁷ “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. ²⁸ Father, glorify your name!”
Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” ²⁹ The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
³⁰ Jesus said, “This voice was for your benefit, not mine. ³¹ Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. ³² And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” ³³ He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
³⁴ The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
³⁵ Then Jesus told them, “You are going to have the light just a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, before darkness overtakes you. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where they are going. ³⁶ Believe in the light while you have the light, so that you may become children of light.” When he had finished speaking, Jesus left and hid himself from them.

Every seed must fall to the earth and die to bring forth life.

This is a spiritual law and a natural law that has always been true.

The creation declares the glory of God. The glory of God is the fact that he was born of a woman and became flesh to shed his blood for us.

Jesus is the Seed that had to die and be buried in the ground to bring forth life.

Jesus had to die for us to have life.

This also proves that there was always natural death on the earth from the very first plants till today.

For to be any different would be to say that Jesus did not have to die from the beginning.

But that was always God's plan from the very beginning. To become flesh and die for us, for us to have eternal life.

Lou Newton

[Blane]

This may end up being an unusual thread, but we can always nix it, so here goes. As we know, God often chooses to manifest spiritual truths by allowing us to first witness things or patterns in the physical realm.

I had a strange thought today while driving along the interstate. I saw a buzzard sitting on a deer carcass and figured it was getting ready to feast. The strange thought I had went something like this: "Lord, why did you create scavenger birds? They actually PREFER rotting flesh over fresh meat! How can they even digest it without getting sick? What were you trying to communicate (if anything) to us by creating scavenger birds?"

Anyway, a couple thoughts came to mind.

1. Like maggots, scavenger birds help to rid the earth of rotting flesh.

2. Scavenger birds personify evil spirits. Demons feed on the flesh nature of mankind because God told Satan in the Garden of Eden that he would eat dust all the days of his life.

Anyway, regardless of why God chose to create such strange birds as buzzards, this might make for an edifying topic. That is, what illustrations has God given us in the physical realm that are needful for us to associate with spiritual realities?

Romans 1:18-21 surely comes into play on this topic. Maybe there are many more. What are your thoughts?

Blane