The St James church massacre

[Lou Newton]

The NAACP and liberals in this nation have made a hero out of Nelson Mandela. But in fact he was the leader of a communist terrorist group in South Africa. One of their tactics was to take the innocent 12 year old girl of a opposition leader and tie her hands and put a tire around here neck and pour gasoline on it and light it on fire. No one would help her, for if they did, they would be next.


After Mandela became president this same terror organisation came into the St James church and opened fire on the people with four AK-47's. When the people went to the floor, they threw hand grenades into the crowd. Many were killed and almost 60 injured. Those injuries were very serious. One man had a grenade land in his lap and blew off both legs and one arm.


ONE man in the church opened fire with a very small snub nose 38 revolver. His fire hit one terrorist and they left. In talking to the gunman later, it was found out that they had planned on leaving no one alive. But they did not plan on anyone being armed.


BTW, guns had been banned in South Africa for years before this took place. The Police told the man who fired on the terrorist that if they found out that he killed any of the terrorists, he would be charged with homicide. The four terrorists were all found out and they are all free.


If the man who defended the church had been charged, it would have been almost impossible to defend himself. For ever since Nelsons Mandela's group took over South Africa, you are GUILTY until you prove you are innocent.


One of their first acts, once they were in power, was to disarm the people.


Genocide only takes place when the people are disarmed.


Any group that wants to take the arms from the people are NOT for freedom. If they get their way, they will force their will upon the people. Those that resist will be killed. Many that do not resist will also be killed.


Watch the video below to see more:




Charl van Wyk discusses the St. James Church Massacre with VCDL

Charl van Wyk discusses the St. James Church Massacre w...
View on www.youtube.com	Preview by Yahoo

[Baruch]

Thank you for this, Lou. The video was very edifying.

I had not seriously considered Nelson Mandela until very recently when his death presented that opportunity to me. Then I spoke with a man whose family hails from South Africa, and he spent some years there about a decade ago. I mentioned how bad it seemed to have gotten there, and asked him generally (not wishing to blunder into any sore spots) if it's true or just a lot of media spin. He surprised me by saying it was actually quite nice there, and not very dangerous. Of course, he was speaking of gentrified Cape Town of a decade or more ago, when things were much different and he and his worldview were young and probably much simpler. Alas, it was too short a conversation. I did not get to ask what he thought of Mandela. I keep hoping for an opportunity to pull him aside again because I find it very interesting and value the opinion of one with firsthand experience.

This man in the OP, Mr. van Wyk, has been through some very rough stuff. It's an amazing testament to the healing power of the Lord that he can talk about it so calmly in such detail. Bless him for telling without flinching how the warfare of a follower of Christ changes when the rule of government radically changes for the worst.

I often think the context of 2 Corinthians 10 within which we find "we do not war after the flesh" is not intended in the simple way that most people interpret: i.e. give up striving in the world, replace it with some teacher's brand of spiritual warfare. This rather strikes me as a brand of passivity. We're not called to passivity. Our hope is not in the will or wisdom of man, or the might of flesh which usurps the will of God. The real might is obtained of God when we acknowledge Him as the head, and the source of the power of our faith, even our eternal lives. Because we're still in the world, there is a race of endurance to finish, righteous work to be done, battlefronts to engage, intrigues to quell and we fully need His strength. (Not to be confused with works seeking our own righteousness and glory; rather, faith-based works as presented in James 2.)

That leads me to the disarming of America. As with so many other things, we can look to other countries to see the end of any way. Socialism, corporatism, scientism, spiritism, legalism, pacifism--no wonder -isms have a bad rap. These are proven to be enemies of liberty. I don't mean the "do as thou wilt" brand of liberty, of course, which is the recipe for chaos and destruction that paves the broad way for -isms. I cannot think of one example where disarming the population has been good for the people. Hellish examples abound; we tend to consider the "success stories" the ones where the anger of the people flared and they found a way to arm themselves and a will to rebel against an oppressive regime. It's nothing less than a recipe to destroy a nation. Why should America wish to lay down its arms and expect a different outcome? I reiterate, WHY??? (I don't seek a response. I just want anyone reading this to really think hard about it and research some history.) That way offers so much pain and death and suffering that it should provide motivation to resist it at the risk of pain and death and suffering. We have only to look at disarmed countries where lawless gangs and governments routinely steamroll helpless citizens who gave up their arms under threat or promise, and are now at the mercy of unvarnished, merciless evil.

To a follower of Christ, I don't think there is one lone right way to approach war. The Holy Spirit leads us via the conscience. What we do must be of faith, else it is sin (Rom 14:23). One may abstain righteously in faith, and one may act righteously in faith, and in doing either we ought to take care not to cause our brothers and sisters to stumble. It seems perspective's the key here: we're not all the same member of the body of Christ, and we must keep this fact in our awareness.

I believe the left-right argument over armed citizens is a non-argument rooted in the flesh. Regarding our faith, we believe in Him who raises the dead. Whether we keep our guns and die in battle, or give up our guns and die in a church massacre, He raises the dead and our life is with Him in eternity. Our flesh is already dead. We should not fear terrorist death threats, or government police action, or illegal government crackdowns. (Yes, illegal. Bureaucrats break existing law by passing corporate laws, policies, and signing treaties enforceable by foreign entities; it's a battle of corporate law and money vs. constitutional and common law and ideals. Those in office act outside their authority granted by the people. What else can it be, but illegal?)

I have to remind myself that I'm passionate about this and have fairly strong opinions. I don't claim they are perfectly right, and I carefully consider different opinions. So far I've not been swayed by power-hungry, leftist ideology or fearful worldly savior-seekers. I do believe there's a sweet spot somewhere to the right of the true line of left-right demarcation, where personal liberty, grace, justice, truth, honesty, integrity, and righteous judgement are a blessing to men who wish to live a quiet and peaceable life. For man, the kingdom of heaven has always been forcibly pressed into and defended, for there are always those to contend with who seek to impose their will, and those who would kill the knowledge of God, and those in Revelation "which destroy the earth". I don't see the Old Testament shadow of warfare retired in the New Testament until Jesus comes. I see it applied in addition, and with greater power, in the spiritual realm. We are called to "possess the land"--note, not Dominionism--by possessing our vessel, bringing thoughts into captivity to Christ, pulling down spiritual strongholds, and keeping/guarding oneself and all possessed territory. These things have spiritual and natural counterparts: on earth as in heaven. We cannot do any of this without God.

What is the real crux of the argument for one whose life is hidden in God with Christ? I believe it is both very simple, and as complicated as each can handle without straying from the simplicity that's in Christ. We are both spiritual and natural beings. In practice, in spirit and in the natural, resist the enemy and submit to God. The natural is the shadow of the heavenly, so the real war's in the heavens, which plays out in the natural. All by the grace of God, it's the role we play in the spiritual that makes possible the will and glory of God to work through us, His frail vessels, to be seen in the natural. The worldly soul lacks spiritual vision, and cannot understand the spiritual except by his natural worldview and senses. Thus, it seems to follow that a follower of Christ has responsibility both in the spiritual and natural realms to stand against the enemy, and act to preserve life. The present lives of unbelievers are the future lives of believers.

[Lou Newton]

Thank you for this, Lou. The video was very edifying.

I had not seriously considered Nelson Mandela until very recently when his death presented that opportunity to me. Then I spoke with a man whose family hails from South Africa, and he spent some years there about a decade ago. I mentioned how bad it seemed to have gotten there, and asked him generally (not wishing to blunder into any sore spots) if it's true or just a lot of media spin. He surprised me by saying it was actually quite nice there, and not very dangerous. Of course, he was speaking of gentrified Cape Town of a decade or more ago, when things were much different and he and his worldview were young and probably much simpler. Alas, it was too short a conversation. I did not get to ask what he thought of Mandela. I keep hoping for an opportunity to pull him aside again because I find it very interesting and value the opinion of one with firsthand experience.

This man in the OP, Mr. van Wyk, has been through some very rough stuff. It's an amazing testament to the healing power of the Lord that he can talk about it so calmly in such detail. Bless him for telling without flinching how the warfare of a follower of Christ changes when the rule of government radically changes for the worst.

I often think the context of 2 Corinthians 10 within which we find "we do not war after the flesh" is not intended in the simple way that most people interpret: i.e. give up striving in the world, replace it with some teacher's brand of spiritual warfare. This rather strikes me as a brand of passivity. We're not called to passivity. Our hope is not in the will or wisdom of man, or the might of flesh which usurps the will of God. The real might is obtained of God when we acknowledge Him as the head, and the source of the power of our faith, even our eternal lives. Because we're still in the world, there is a race of endurance to finish, righteous work to be done, battlefronts to engage, intrigues to quell and we fully need His strength. (Not to be confused with works seeking our own righteousness and glory; rather, faith-based works as presented in James 2.)

That leads me to the disarming of America. As with so many other things, we can look to other countries to see the end of any way. Socialism, corporatism, scientism, spiritism, legalism, pacifism--no wonder -isms have a bad rap. These are proven to be enemies of liberty. I don't mean the "do as thou wilt" brand of liberty, of course, which is the recipe for chaos and destruction that paves the broad way for -isms. I cannot think of one example where disarming the population has been good for the people. Hellish examples abound; we tend to consider the "success stories" the ones where the anger of the people flared and they found a way to arm themselves and a will to rebel against an oppressive regime. It's nothing less than a recipe to destroy a nation. Why should America wish to lay down its arms and expect a different outcome? I reiterate, WHY??? (I don't seek a response. I just want anyone reading this to really think hard about it and research some history.) That way offers so much pain and death and suffering that it should provide motivation to resist it at the risk of pain and death and suffering. We have only to look at disarmed countries where lawless gangs and governments routinely steamroll helpless citizens who gave up their arms under threat or promise, and are now at the mercy of unvarnished, merciless evil.

To a follower of Christ, I don't think there is one lone right way to approach war. The Holy Spirit leads us via the conscience. What we do must be of faith, else it is sin (Rom 14:23). One may abstain righteously in faith, and one may act righteously in faith, and in doing either we ought to take care not to cause our brothers and sisters to stumble. It seems perspective's the key here: we're not all the same member of the body of Christ, and we must keep this fact in our awareness.

I believe the left-right argument over armed citizens is a non-argument rooted in the flesh. Regarding our faith, we believe in Him who raises the dead. Whether we keep our guns and die in battle, or give up our guns and die in a church massacre, He raises the dead and our life is with Him in eternity. Our flesh is already dead. We should not fear terrorist death threats, or government police action, or illegal government crackdowns. (Yes, illegal. Bureaucrats break existing law by passing corporate laws, policies, and signing treaties enforceable by foreign entities; it's a battle of corporate law and money vs. constitutional and common law and ideals. Those in office act outside their authority granted by the people. What else can it be, but illegal?)

I have to remind myself that I'm passionate about this and have fairly strong opinions. I don't claim they are perfectly right, and I carefully consider different opinions. So far I've not been swayed by power-hungry, leftist ideology or fearful worldly savior-seekers. I do believe there's a sweet spot somewhere to the right of the true line of left-right demarcation, where personal liberty, grace, justice, truth, honesty, integrity, and righteous judgement are a blessing to men who wish to live a quiet and peaceable life. For man, the kingdom of heaven has always been forcibly pressed into and defended, for there are always those to contend with who seek to impose their will, and those who would kill the knowledge of God, and those in Revelation "which destroy the earth". I don't see the Old Testament shadow of warfare retired in the New Testament until Jesus comes. I see it applied in addition, and with greater power, in the spiritual realm. We are called to "possess the land"--note, not Dominionism--by possessing our vessel, bringing thoughts into captivity to Christ, pulling down spiritual strongholds, and keeping/guarding oneself and all possessed territory. These things have spiritual and natural counterparts: on earth as in heaven. We cannot do any of this without God.

What is the real crux of the argument for one whose life is hidden in God with Christ? I believe it is both very simple, and as complicated as each can handle without straying from the simplicity that's in Christ. We are both spiritual and natural beings. In practice, in spirit and in the natural, resist the enemy and submit to God. The natural is the shadow of the heavenly, so the real war's in the heavens, which plays out in the natural. All by the grace of God, it's the role we play in the spiritual that makes possible the will and glory of God to work through us, His frail vessels, to be seen in the natural. The worldly soul lacks spiritual vision, and cannot understand the spiritual except by his natural worldview and senses. Thus, it seems to follow that a follower of Christ has responsibility both in the spiritual and natural realms to stand against the enemy, and act to preserve life. The present lives of unbelievers are the future lives of believers.

Thanks for the reply Barry.

Yes, we are all part of His Body, and as you say we are different parts from one another.

One may be called, by His Holy Spirit to go into the wilderness and fast for 40 days.

Another may be called to defend the innocent with the sword like David was.

Both were called of God and both obeyed God. God does not change but not all are called to be singers in the Temple; someone has to plant, reap, build, or even defend.

One thing is sure, if followers of Christ all do nothing, the world will taken over by evil men and many innocent children may not get their chance to hear and repent.

We are called to SERVE Christ, NOT SHRINK BACK IN FEAR.

Lou Newton