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  • Judgements

    Matthew 7:1-5 "Judge not, they ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt though see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    The Lord teaches about not judging one another. Yet we do it every day. I am by far no means a perfect man and neither is anyone else. How do you stop? You've become so used to doing it in your every day life that its become like human law to judge.

    Psalms 1:1-6 " Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgement, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. "

    I did an experiment a few months ago. I stopped judging for a few days. I kept those thoughts out of my brain the best I could. I do not know how far the judging goes...whether it includes like judging which apple to eat or peach or apple or if it just refers to one another I do not know. But I stopped judging people. I stopped saying "Oh wow hes so fat, he must be really lazy" in my head. Instead I just looked at them and stopped myself from even thinking like that.

    I will admit...it was one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my whole life...but I felt great when I went to bed. I knew that for 1 day...I hadn't judged someone...and that feeling was fantastic.

    Revelation 21:8 " But the fearful, and unbelieving, end the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. "

    Revelation 22:7 " Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. "

    You all know this...he is coming again. This judgement stuff is really one of the biggest things we all need to work on. Otherwise we have hell fire and brimstone to look forward to for the rest of our soul's life.

  • #2
    How will I be judged

    Originally posted by Drew Van Scoy View Post
    Matthew 7:1-5 "Judge not, they ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt though see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

    The Lord teaches about not judging one another. Yet we do it every day. I am by far no means a perfect man and neither is anyone else. How do you stop? You've become so used to doing it in your every day life that its become like human law to judge.

    Psalms 1:1-6 " Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgement, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. "

    I did an experiment a few months ago. I stopped judging for a few days. I kept those thoughts out of my brain the best I could. I do not know how far the judging goes...whether it includes like judging which apple to eat or peach or apple or if it just refers to one another I do not know. But I stopped judging people. I stopped saying "Oh wow hes so fat, he must be really lazy" in my head. Instead I just looked at them and stopped myself from even thinking like that.

    I will admit...it was one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my whole life...but I felt great when I went to bed. I knew that for 1 day...I hadn't judged someone...and that feeling was fantastic.

    Revelation 21:8 " But the fearful, and unbelieving, end the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. "

    Revelation 22:7 " Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. "

    You all know this...he is coming again. This judgement stuff is really one of the biggest things we all need to work on. Otherwise we have hell fire and brimstone to look forward to for the rest of our soul's life.
    Hi Drew,

    I read your post with great interest. Thanks for putting forth your thoughts. That is what causes fellowship with others to take place.

    You have breeched a very large and very important subject.

    WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT - HOW I JUDGE OTHERS - OR HOW GOD WILL JUDGE ME

    I will start to explain what The Lord Jesus has taught me about it in my almost 40 years of walking and talking with Him.

    I used to read the Bible and would quake in fear. I remember this scripture that showed me I was in far more trouble than I even first thought:

    Matthew 5
    The Beatitudes

    5:3-12pp -- Lk 6:20-23
    1 Now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them, saying: 3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
    Salt and Light
    13 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
    The Fulfillment of the Law
    17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
    First of all, I was very confused about the first part that I put in bold.

    Blessed are those that mourn - mourn about what - do I want to mourn - I wanted to be happy - I later seen that I was to mourn over my sinfulness

    Blessed are the poor in spirit - I did not know what this meant - later I was to learn that there were many who were puffed up in their spirit - but Jesus says the POOR in spirit are blessed. This is not something we can see in a person right off. But if we get to know someone and are close to them, they will show if they are poor in spirit or not. But of course Jesus is The Judge.

    Blessed are the meek - First of all to be meek one has to have some power to even be meek - meek does NOT mean weak - Jesus was God Almighty and had all power and authority and created everything that existed, yet he did not come down from heaven and destroy every sinner that he came into contact with. Some even mocked Him and threatened to kill Him, but Jesus did not harm them in any way before the time of judgment (which is at the end of this age). Having all power and authority and yet not sending those who hung Him on a cross to die, to hell immediately, now that was MEEK.

    Meek is having power, yet retraining the use of that power until the proper time.

    Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness - WOW, have you ever been really thirsty, or ever have not eaten for days - Once I was sent to the hospital for some tests - I was not allowed to drink any water for several days - I found out what thirsty meant. My mouth was so parched, all I could think about was water. I was aware that I did not thirst for righteousness like that. It is NOT all I thought about back then.

    Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy - I was aware that I was did not show mercy to others in many circumstances. It is easy to have mercy for some, but much harder to have mercy for others.

    Blessed are the PURE in heart - Wow, I knew I was not pure in any way

    But the one that really made me stop reading The Bible for a while was the one at the end:

    For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven
    The Pharisees were the leaders of the church in Israel. They read the scriptures for hours every day. They prayed for hours every day. They memorized whole books of the Bible. They were very careful to spend great effort to try to follow every single law of God. They even tithed the small plants in their garden. I had not memorized even one book of the Bible. I had not even read the whole Bible at that time.

    I was aware that I could never be more righteous than these men.

    Then I read this:

    Isaiah 64
    6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
    I had to think about that one for a while - If my RIGHTEOUS acts were FILTHY RAGS - what were my sinful ones like.

    BTW a filthy rag was what was used as toilet paper back then.

    Imagine taking a glass of milk and stirring into it the smallest amount of pig manure. You could not detect the pig manure by sight or smell. Would you want to drink it. Of course not, for it would be filthy.

    Our every deed and every thought is tainted with our selfishness. In the front of our mind we can have good in mind, but back there somewhere is our selfish motives. - We do things to gain favor with God. We are always worried about what we will eat. Who here has given all that they possess to the poor. - the Lord Jesus is The Only One to do that, for He even gave His life for those who mocked Him.

    We feel good when we do something better than our most evil deeds. We feel good when we do better than some others who are being more evil than us.

    BUT MEN ARE NOT THE STANDARD BY WHICH WE ARE ALL JUDGED

    Romans 3
    No One Is Righteous
    9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." 13 "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
    The Holy Spirit here tells us through Paul that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS. And Paul was quoting a OT prophet.

    If one argues against this, and claims to be righteous, then they are sinning by calling God a liar.

    Romans 3
    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
    God is the standard instead of any man. We all fall short of the glory of God. God is the only one who is righteous.

    BUT ONLY THE RIGHTEOUS WILL ENTER HEAVEN

    So what can we do.

    Romans 3:4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar.
    We are told that every man is a liar. If a man denies this, he is lying. For God says every man is a liar.

    If I am a liar, and God tells me that I am, how can a liar ever tell the truth. ( we do not even know the truth, but only a very small foggy part of the truth)

    THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY THAT A MAN CAN EVER TELL THE TRUTH

    1 JOHN 1
    7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin
    Now let me ask everyone this: can you walk in the light as Jesus walks in the light.

    How can men whose most righteous deeds are filthy, and they are liars ever walk in the light as Jesus does.

    JESUS CAN NOT LIE - HE HAS NO DECEIT IN HIM, NONE

    THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY FOR MEN TO WALK IN THE LIGHT AS JESUS WALKS IN THE LIGHT

    When I get on my knees and confess to The Lord Jesus that I am a total sinner and a total liar, NOW I HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH - I AM WALKING IN THE LIGHT AS JESUS WALKS IN THE LIGHT

    1 JOHN 1
    8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
    As I confess my sin to the Lord, He covers me with His blood and I am covered in His righteousness.

    No man can enter heaven by trusting in his efforts to be good.

    John 6
    28 Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
    So the work that God requires of us is to believe in Jesus.

    Of course even the demons believe and tremble. So it is not that kind of belief. If we believe in Him we will TRUST Him.

    Col 1
    20 It was through what his Son did that God cleared a path for everything to come to him—all things in heaven and on earth—for Christ’s death on the cross has made peace with God for all by his blood. 21 This includes you who were once so far away from God. You were his enemies and hated him and were separated from him by your evil thoughts and actions, yet now he has brought you back as his friends. 22 He has done this through the death on the cross of his own human body, and now as a result Christ has brought you into the very presence of God, and you are standing there before him with nothing left against you—nothing left that he could even chide you for; 23 the only condition is that you fully believe the Truth, standing in it steadfast and firm, strong in the Lord, convinced of the Good News that Jesus died for you, and never shifting from trusting him to save you.
    If we read with great care, we see the word ONLY. This means having to do with ONE. So there is ONE condition to being saved. We have to fully believe that one condition, we have to stand in that ONE condition steadfast and firm.

    THAT ONE CONDITION IS TO TRUST JESUS TO SAVE YOU

    JESUS PROVED HE WANTS TO SAVE US BY SHEDDING HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS

    JESUS PROVED HE IS ABLE TO SAVE US BY RAISING HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD ( see note below)

    But what if all I do is trust Jesus to save me and I am not saved.

    Someone can write this on my gravestone if anyone dares:

    HERE LIES LOU NEWTON
    RUINED BY TRUSTING IN JESUS


    NOTE: to read my article on "Did Jesus raise Himself from the dead" - http://www.fortressoftruth.com/forums/showthread.php?6-Did-Jesus-Raise-Himself-from-the-Dead
    Ps - if you see any typos or errors, please send me a PM to let me know so I can correct it. Thanks Baruch, I would not be runied, but ruined.

    Grace to you
    Lou Newton
    Bond servant of Jesus
    Last edited by Lou Newton; September 2, 2014, 04:21 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
      Hi Drew,

      I read your post with great interest. Thanks for putting forth your thoughts. That is what causes fellowship with others to take place.

      You have breeched a very large and very important subject.

      WHICH IS MORE IMPORTANT - HOW I JUDGE OTHERS - OR HOW GOD WILL JUDGE ME

      I will start to explain what The Lord Jesus has taught me about it in my almost 40 years of walking and talking with Him.

      I used to read the Bible and would quake in fear. I remember this scripture that showed me I was in far more trouble than I even first thought:



      First of all, I was very confused about the first part that I put in bold.

      Blessed are those that mourn - mourn about what - do I want to mourn - I wanted to be happy - I later seen that I was to mourn over my sinfulness

      Blessed are the poor in spirit - I did not know what this meant - later I was to learn that there were many who were puffed up in their spirit - but Jesus says the POOR in spirit are blessed. This is not something we can see in a person right off. But if we get to know someone and are close to them, they will show if they are poor in spirit or not. But of course Jesus is The Judge.

      Blessed are the meek - First of all to be meek one has to have some power to even be meek - meek does NOT mean weak - Jesus was God Almighty and had all power and authority and created everything that existed, yet he did not come down from heaven and destroy every sinner that he came into contact with. Some even mocked Him and threatened to kill Him, but Jesus did not harm them in any way before the time of judgment (which is at the end of this age). Having all power and authority and yet not sending those who hung Him on a cross to die, to hell immediately, now that was MEEK.

      Meek is having power, yet retraining the use of that power until the proper time.

      Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness - WOW, have you ever been really thirsty, or ever have not eaten for days - Once I was sent to the hospital for some tests - I was not allowed to drink any water for several days - I found out what thirsty meant. My mouth was so parched, all I could think about was water. I was aware that I did not thirst for righteousness like that. It is NOT all I thought about back then.

      Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy - I was aware that I was did not show mercy to others in many circumstances. It is easy to have mercy for some, but much harder to have mercy for others.

      Blessed are the PURE in heart - Wow, I knew I was not pure in any way

      But the one that really made me stop reading The Bible for a while was the one at the end:



      The Pharisees were the leaders of the church in Israel. They read the scriptures for hours every day. They prayed for hours every day. They memorized whole books of the Bible. They were very careful to spend great effort to try to follow every single law of God. They even tithed the small plants in their garden. I had not memorized even one book of the Bible. I had not even read the whole Bible at that time.

      I was aware that I could never be more righteous than these men.

      Then I read this:



      I had to think about that one for a while - If my RIGHTEOUS acts were FILTHY RAGS - what were my sinful ones like.

      BTW a filthy rag was what was used as toilet paper back then.

      Imagine taking a glass of milk and stirring into it the smallest amount of pig manure. You could not detect the pig manure by sight or smell. Would you want to drink it. Of course not, for it would be filthy.

      Our every deed and every thought is tainted with our selfishness. In the front of our mind we can have good in mind, but back there somewhere is our selfish motives. - We do things to gain favor with God. We are always worried about what we will eat. Who here has given all that they possess to the poor. - the Lord Jesus is The Only One to do that, for He even gave His life for those who mocked Him.

      We feel good when we do something better than our most evil deeds. We feel good when we do better than some others who are being more evil than us.

      BUT MEN ARE NOT THE STANDARD BY WHICH WE ARE ALL JUDGED



      The Holy Spirit here tells us through Paul that NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS. And Paul was quoting a OT prophet.

      If one argues against this, and claims to be righteous, then they are sinning by calling God a liar.



      God is the standard instead of any man. We all fall short of the glory of God. God is the only one who is righteous.

      BUT ONLY THE RIGHTEOUS WILL ENTER HEAVEN

      So what can we do.



      We are told that every man is a liar. If a man denies this, he is lying. For God says every man is a liar.

      If I am a liar, and God tells me that I am, how can a liar ever tell the truth. ( we do not even know the truth, but only a very small foggy part of the truth)

      THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY THAT A MAN CAN EVER TELL THE TRUTH



      Now let me ask everyone this: can you walk in the light as Jesus walks in the light.

      How can men whose most righteous deeds are filthy, and they are liars ever walk in the light as Jesus does.

      JESUS CAN NOT LIE - HE HAS NO DECEIT IN HIM, NONE

      THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY FOR MEN TO WALK IN THE LIGHT AS JESUS WALKS IN THE LIGHT

      When I get on my knees and confess to The Lord Jesus that I am a total sinner and a total liar, NOW I HAVE TOLD THE TRUTH - I AM WALKING IN THE LIGHT AS JESUS WALKS IN THE LIGHT



      As I confess my sin to the Lord, He covers me with His blood and I am covered in His righteousness.

      No man can enter heaven by trusting in his efforts to be good.



      So the work that God requires of us is to believe in Jesus.

      Of course even the demons believe and tremble. So it is not that kind of belief. If we believe in Him we will TRUST Him.



      If we read with great care, we see the word ONLY. This means having to do with ONE. So there is ONE condition to being saved. We have to fully believe that one condition, we have to stand in that ONE condition steadfast and firm.

      THAT ONE CONDITION IS TO TRUST JESUS TO SAVE YOU

      JESUS PROVED HE WANTS TO SAVE US BY SHEDDING HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS

      JESUS PROVED HE IS ABLE TO SAVE US BY RAISING HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD

      But what if all I do is trust Jesus to save me and I am not saved.

      Someone can write this on my gravestone if anyone dares:

      HERE LIES LOU NEWTON
      RUINED BY TRUSTING IN JESUS


      Ps - if you see any typos or errors, please send me a PM to let me know so I can correct it. Thanks Baruch, I would not be runied, but ruined.

      Grace to you
      Lou Newton
      Bond servant of Jesus
      I want to make something very clear since this is a new forum and some do not know me:

      I am a total sinner. My most righteous deed is like filthy rags. I am a liar, though I want to be truthful.

      I have never done anything righteous and never will do even one thing that is righteous.

      I have nothing good within me EXCEPT FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LORD JESUS

      Jesus is all of my righteousness. If I write, or do anything it will be evil in someway.

      But when I fully surrender my life to Jesus, He can write good things through my fingers. I am but a pen that Jesus picks up to use to write. I am but lips that Jesus can speak through IF I surrender to Him.

      I am blind, deaf, and lame. I can only see if Jesus gives me sight. I can only hear if Jesus gives me hearing. I can only walk if Jesus helps me walk.

      I am nothing but a mere pen. But I am content in being a pen, IF the creator of everything that exists uses me to write.

      My only hope is that I am His slave. Or one that can not do as I want to do, but my hope is that Jesus will cause me to do as He wills.

      My hope is what Paul told us:

      We do not have to be willing to do His will, but we have to be willing to be made willing to do His will.

      After all David said, He MAKES me lie down in green pastures.

      These scriptures are good news for a poor sinner like me.

      Lou

      Comment


      • #4
        What a powerful POWERFUL message this is to me, Lou.
        Thank you, Drew, for starting this thread.

        It made me feel like a completely filthy rag when I started reading...so guilty...so discouraged...right up until I got to this part:

        JESUS PROVED HE WANTS TO SAVE US BY SHEDDING HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS

        JESUS PROVED HE IS ABLE TO SAVE US BY RAISING HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD

        !!Hallelujah to the Most High God!!
        You know not what you do because you know not who He is.
        - Paul Washer
        Satan is the angel of knowledge and he does not waste his time on anything for no reason.
        - Lou Newton

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jules View Post
          What a powerful POWERFUL message this is to me, Lou.
          Thank you, Drew, for starting this thread.

          It made me feel like a completely filthy rag when I started reading...so guilty...so discouraged...right up until I got to this part:




          !!Hallelujah to the Most High God!!
          Amen, Hallelujah Julie. For the first part I just typed about who I am, the final part was who Jesus is.

          Lou

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post
            I want to make something very clear since this is a new forum and some do not know me:

            I am a total sinner. My most righteous deed is like filthy rags. I am a liar, though I want to be truthful.

            I have never done anything righteous and never will do even one thing that is righteous.

            I have nothing good within me EXCEPT FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LORD JESUS

            Jesus is all of my righteousness. If I write, or do anything it will be evil in someway.

            But when I fully surrender my life to Jesus, He can write good things through my fingers. I am but a pen that Jesus picks up to use to write. I am but lips that Jesus can speak through IF I surrender to Him.

            I am blind, deaf, and lame. I can only see if Jesus gives me sight. I can only hear if Jesus gives me hearing. I can only walk if Jesus helps me walk.

            I am nothing but a mere pen. But I am content in being a pen, IF the creator of everything that exists uses me to write.

            My only hope is that I am His slave. Or one that can not do as I want to do, but my hope is that Jesus will cause me to do as He wills.

            My hope is what Paul told us:

            We do not have to be willing to do His will, but we have to be willing to be made willing to do His will.

            After all David said, He MAKES me lie down in green pastures.

            These scriptures are good news for a poor sinner like me.

            Lou



            Lou, thanks for being faithful to let God speak through you.

            I am encouraged by the simplicity of the Gospel. God made the Gospel so easy to understand, that children often get it, while brilliant scholars fail to comprehend.

            Lou, your quote above is confirmed by Jesus in John 15:


            15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

            2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
            3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
            4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
            5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

            6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
            7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
            8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
            9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
            10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
            11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
            12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Blane View Post
              Lou, thanks for being faithful to let God speak through you.

              I am encouraged by the simplicity of the Gospel. God made the Gospel so easy to understand, that children often get it, while brilliant scholars fail to comprehend.

              Lou, your quote above is confirmed by Jesus in John 15:


              15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

              2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
              3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
              4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
              5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

              6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
              7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
              8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
              9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
              10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
              11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
              12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
              Amen Blane...............Lou

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Lou Newton View Post

                The Pharisees were the leaders of the church in Israel. They read the scriptures for hours every day. They prayed for hours every day. They memorized whole books of the Bible. They were very careful to spend great effort to try to follow every single law of God. They even tithed the small plants in their garden. I had not memorized even one book of the Bible. I had not even read the whole Bible at that time.

                I was aware that I could never be more righteous than these men.
                So true,

                A lot of times we and others bash on the pharisees because we see that Jesus was so hard on them. Without knowing more about them, we could assume that they were just pretty lousy fellows. But these were the most upright, moral, dedicated, zealous people (probably on the face of the earth). No one was more righteous than the pharisees, as far as human standards are concerned. Saul, a pharisee, was probably the closest one could get to being righteous by one's own standards.
                Philippians 3:
                4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

                Acts 22:
                3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

                If Paul studied under Gamaliel, he was under a man who was considered probaly the top rabbi by the Jews at that time. This meant he had the first five books of the bible written by Moses, memorized word for word, and probably more than that. He says that concerning the righteousness which is in the law, he was blameless... And he wasn't lying.

                If Paul considers that all dung, like horse or cattle poop, then.... what chance do I have of building my own righteousness.

                Absolutely none...

                Thanks for taking the time to share all this Lou, it is very edifying. The simple things of our faith are also the most wonderful.

                Grace to you,

                Travis

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Travis View Post
                  So true,

                  A lot of times we and others bash on the pharisees because we see that Jesus was so hard on them. Without knowing more about them, we could assume that they were just pretty lousy fellows. But these were the most upright, moral, dedicated, zealous people (probably on the face of the earth). No one was more righteous than the pharisees, as far as human standards are concerned. Saul, a pharisee, was probably the closest one could get to being righteous by one's own standards.
                  Philippians 3:
                  4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, [of] the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

                  Acts 22:
                  3 I am verily a man [which am] a Jew, born in Tarsus, [a city] in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, [and] taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

                  If Paul studied under Gamaliel, he was under a man who was considered probaly the top rabbi by the Jews at that time. This meant he had the first five books of the bible written by Moses, memorized word for word, and probably more than that. He says that concerning the righteousness which is in the law, he was blameless... And he wasn't lying.

                  If Paul considers that all dung, like horse or cattle poop, then.... what chance do I have of building my own righteousness.

                  Absolutely none...

                  Thanks for taking the time to share all this Lou, it is very edifying. The simple things of our faith are also the most wonderful.

                  Grace to you,

                  Travis
                  How true Travis. If anyone could count of their own righteousness, it would have been Paul. But as you pointed out, he counted his righteousness as dung.

                  I appreciated your comment.

                  Thanks Drew for starting this thread. It really got a lot of people thinking.

                  Lou

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hehehe, its very interesting just reading all the comments. I'm glad I sparked a fire of thinking :thumbup: .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is an interesting contrast to Mat 7:1-2. Jesus's words seem pretty clear. When we condemn someone we'll be held to the same standard.
                      Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

                      In 1Co 6:1-5 Paul's words seem pretty clear. Brothers should not haul one another before the unjust, using their laws against one another. Rather seek judgment within the church.
                      1Co 6:1-5 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

                      And the more excellent personal judgment in verse 7 must be mentioned: "Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

                      In the previous chapter, 1Co 5:3-5, Paul rebukes the church at Corinth for misjudging an incestuous brother.
                      1Co 5:3-5 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

                      On the surface, does not Paul's decree seem extremely harsh? If this punishment is like that suffered by Ananias and Sapphira in Act 5, it is a death sentence. It is unclear, but some scholars speculate this was an instance like Job, turned over to Satan for torment; and so not unto death, yet still rather harsh.

                      As Travis so adeptly pointed out, Paul may have been the most righteous according to the law. I don't dare suggest Paul was willing to gamble he would not be meted the same punishment. He was onto something entirely different here. And, very interestingly, Paul tongue-lashes Corinth (presumably "less righteous" men by the same measure) for not doing so before he had to jump in.

                      This "judgment" in 1Co 6:4 is the Greek, "kritērion". Look familiar? In our daily lives we discern based on criteria as a matter of course.

                      Are we told not to judge, and yet to judge? What's the operative distinction between Mat 7:1 and elsewhere, such as 1Co 5 and 6?

                      Very curious.
                      Last edited by Baruch; September 2, 2014, 11:14 PM. Reason: adding fancy indents

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I ought to mention the other forms of "judge" in Mat 7 and 1Co 5 and 6 use the same root "kree" as in "kritērion".

                        As a side note: I saw a few instances of Greek words translated as judge or judgment that are not of this root "kree"; but I think we can safely leave those in the parking lot for the sake of this topic's simplicity and clarity.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                          Here is an interesting contrast to Mat 7:1-2. Jesus's words seem pretty clear. When we condemn someone we'll be held to the same standard.
                          Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

                          In 1Co 6:1-5 Paul's words seem pretty clear. Brothers should not haul one another before the unjust, using their laws against one another. Rather seek judgment within the church.
                          1Co 6:1-5 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

                          And the more excellent personal judgment in verse 7 must be mentioned: "Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

                          In the previous chapter, 1Co 5:3-5, Paul rebukes the church at Corinth for misjudging an incestuous brother.
                          1Co 5:3-5 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

                          On the surface, does not Paul's decree seem extremely harsh? If this punishment is like that suffered by Ananias and Sapphira in Act 5, it is a death sentence. It is unclear, but some scholars speculate this was an instance like Job, turned over to Satan for torment; and so not unto death, yet still rather harsh.

                          As Travis so adeptly pointed out, Paul may have been the most righteous according to the law. I don't dare suggest Paul was willing to gamble he would not be meted the same punishment. He was onto something entirely different here. And, very interestingly, Paul tongue-lashes Corinth (presumably "less righteous" men by the same measure) for not doing so before he had to jump in.

                          This "judgment" in 1Co 6:4 is the Greek, "kritērion". Look familiar? In our daily lives we discern based on criteria as a matter of course.

                          Are we told not to judge, and yet to judge? What's the operative distinction between Mat 7:1 and elsewhere, such as 1Co 5 and 6?

                          Very curious.
                          Hi Baruch,

                          Very good question dear friend.

                          The difference is this:

                          Only Jesus can see the heart to judge it. We are to never judge if a person is Christian or not. Only Jesus is to judge that.

                          BUT we are to judge actions and behaviors of a person. We can see the actions of a person. If they murder an innocent person, they are to be put to death. If they steal, they are to repay it four times over.

                          BUT we are NOT to then say that murderer is not a Christian. Or that thief is not a Christian. For only Jesus is the Judge of that.

                          Grace to you
                          Lou Newton
                          Slave of Christ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Baruch,

                            Originally posted by Baruch View Post
                            Here is an interesting contrast to Mat 7:1-2. Jesus's words seem pretty clear. When we condemn someone we'll be held to the same standard.
                            Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

                            In 1Co 6:1-5 Paul's words seem pretty clear. Brothers should not haul one another before the unjust, using their laws against one another. Rather seek judgment within the church.
                            1Co 6:1-5 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. 5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
                            They were trusting in a person without the Holy Spirit instead of trusting a person who had the Holy Spirit. Which is NOT trusting The Holy Spirit. Or they trusted the servants of Satan more that the servants of God.

                            And the more excellent personal judgment in verse 7 must be mentioned: "Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

                            In the previous chapter, 1Co 5:3-5, Paul rebukes the church at Corinth for misjudging an incestuous brother.
                            1Co 5:3-5 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

                            On the surface, does not Paul's decree seem extremely harsh? If this punishment is like that suffered by Ananias and Sapphira in Act 5, it is a death sentence. It is unclear, but some scholars speculate this was an instance like Job, turned over to Satan for torment; and so not unto death, yet still rather harsh.
                            Paul was being merciful to this man. Paul wanted him put out of the church so that this man could see how grievous his sin was to God. Rather than leave that man grow cold to God in his sin and walk away from God. It is the same reason God threw Adam out of the garden, so Adam would not be lost forever to God. Rather discipline now, then hell forever.

                            Jesus never chooses between mercy and justice

                            Everything Jesus does is merciful and just.


                            1 John 1
                            9 If we confess our sins, he is merciful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
                            Jesus was merciful to die for our sins

                            But Jesus was so just that he had to die for our sin so he could forgive us.

                            Grace to you
                            Lou Newton

                            Comment

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