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  • Who did Cain marry ?

    Genesis 4 New International Version (NIV)

    Cain and Abel


    4 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

    Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

    6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

    8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.

    9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

    “I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

    10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

    13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

    15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

    17Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

    19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play stringed instruments and pipes. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of[g] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

    23 Lamech said to his wives,

    “Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
    wives of Lamech, hear my words.
    I have killed a man for wounding me,
    a young man for injuring me.
    24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
    then Lamech seventy-seven times.”

    25Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.” 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.

    At that time people began to call on the name of the Lord.

    NOTICE that The Lord seems to be telling us about all of Adam and Eve's children up to Seth.

    Cain left the land of Eden and went to the land of Nod:

    16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

    Most lands are named after the man who settled them. Who is Nod ? Since Adam is the first man and man seems to be the first living creature with a spirit like God, were there other creatures that looked something like man, but was not a man because God had not given them a spirit. They were NOT men created in the image of God because they had no spirit and God is Spirit. So Adam was the only creature with a spirit Like God.

    But I have had this question ever since the first time I read Genesis 4:

    Who did Cain marry and how did he build a CITY in the land of Nod. The most important thing to be able to build a city is other "people". I always noticed that God did not say town, but CITY.

    So for some time I have wondered if Cain went to the land of Nod and Nod was a Neanderthal. A creature that looked something like a human, but was NOT. For they had no spirit.

    BUT could these two species even mate and have children. ? That is the question.

    Genesis 5New International Version (NIV)

    From Adam to Noah


    5 This is the written account of Adam’s family line.

    When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created.

    3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived a total of 930 years, and then he died.

    God seems to be saying here that Adam did not have other sons and daughters until AFTER Seth was born.
    Last edited by Lou Newton; September 14, 2016, 04:04 PM.

  • #2
    I present this article and tell you it is NOT from a Christian standpoint.

    BUT I think most of these people are seeking truth as far as their field of research goes. I think most are sincere, but many are sincerely deceived.

    BUT there is a lot of very interesting discoveries that are told about here in one article.


    http://www.vox.com/2016/9/14/1288795...-love-genetics

    Humans and Neanderthals had sex. But was it for love?

    An investigation.


    by Brian Resnick on September 14, 2016



    In 1911, Marcellin Boule, a French paleontologist, published the first scientific description of the Neanderthal species. And let’s just say it didn’t have a lot of sex appeal.

    The skeleton in Boule’s volume, dubbed the "Old Man of La Chapelle," was a wretched creature: a hunched-over, brutish, dim-witted, primitive man clearly destined to fail in the game of "survival of the fittest."

    Since Boule’s analysis, our view of Neanderthals has shifted, from a caricature of a caveman to a remarkably sophisticated species. We’ve learned about how they built tools. That they made jewelry. That they, at times, buried their dead. We learned they were possibly stronger than us, and maybe just as smart.

    And Neanderthals just might have been sexy after all. Well, at least, we’ve learned that we had sex with them.

    Neanderthal genomes recently sequenced by scientists have revealed that we humans mated with Neanderthals over thousands of years. These couplings are believed to have been rare and sporadic. But they were meaningful: Just about every human today (except those of solely African ancestry) has around 1 to 4 percent Neanderthal genes in every cell of their body.

    That’s epic. Humans have been around for 200,000 years. But only 6,000 years of it has been recorded. New genetic science is starting to fill in the gaps. And the story it’s starting to tell is gripping.

    "It’s sort of like discovering the Game of Thrones," John Hawks, a University of Wisconsin anthropologist, tells me. "There’s this plot that we didn’t know. These people were interacting with each other, and they survived for thousands of years with those interactions. When you put that together, there’s going to be this incredible story."

    So, yes, humans and Neanderthals had sex. But that’s not the most interesting question, the one I’ve become somewhat obsessed with.

    It’s this: Could a human and a Neanderthal fall in love? Early depictions of Neanderthals portrayed them as more savage and ape-like than they likely were. This illustration appeared in a 1909 edition of Illustrated London News. Checking out Neanderthals


    Would a Neanderthal be attractive by today's standards? I decided to get a look for myself.

    On a sweaty July day, I meet Bernard Wood, a paleoanthropologist at George Washington University, in the lobby of the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History.

    Wood is white-haired, white-bearded, and affable, with circular black glasses and the hint of an underbite. I was delighted to find out his voice is a near dead ringer for David Attenborough’s. "Did modern humans look over there and see a Neanderthal and say ‘hm, not bad?’" Maybe.

    We set off toward the Hall of Human Origins, where dozens of skulls and skeletons of humans or human-like creatures are on display. Their hollow eye sockets stare blankly outward, beckoning us to imagine their flesh, their personalities, their desires and pains. I think about how they might have stared upward at the same stars as us with similar wide-eyed wonder.

    There’s a common misconception that Neanderthals were our ancestors, that we evolved from them. We did not. Neanderthals and modern humans are believed to have diverged from a common ancestor in the genus Homo sometime around 500,000 years ago. The Neanderthal ancestors moved up to Europe before us, and continued to evolve there.

    Encyclopaedia Britannica/UIG Via Getty Image
    The possible pathways of evolution. Solid lines show temporal — time — ranges, and dotted lines are the inferred relationships between species.

    It’s easy to think of evolution as being like that ubiquitous illustration of an ape transitioning into an animal that stands upright, shedding fur, and then finally walking as a proud human.

    But evolution doesn’t follow a straight line. It’s messy, a many-forked path with more dead ends than living branches. Nature is like a jazz musician, trying out slightly tweaked versions of a similar riff to find one just a bit catchier than the rest. Neanderthals are one of the failed branches, a tune that played out.

    I asked Wood if it’s right to think that because we survived and they didn’t, we humans are more "evolved" than Neanderthals.

    "What do you mean by evolved?" he asked, and pointed toward a skull of a creature called Paranthropus boisei, a hominid that looks more like an ape than an accountant.

    "These guys lasted a million years," he says of the Paranthropus. When Neanderthals went extinct around 40,000 years ago, he said, they likely had been on Earth longer than we have been now. We can start feeling truly superior in about 750,000 years, he says.

    Wood and I walk past a case that contains the remains of a 40- to 50-year-old Neanderthal man who died around 45,000 years ago in Iraq. He’s laid out like Lenin in a glass sarcophagus, but fossilized and missing most of his bones. We turn and then arrive at an artist’s sculptural rendering of what such a man might have looked like.

    He’s about 5-foot-5 with ruddy skin and a surprisingly on-trend man bun and beard. Smithsonian This is the Smithsonian’s rendering of what a Neanderthal man might have looked like. With a shower, he could fit in in Brooklyn, right?

    "[Neanderthals] are not as tall as we are, their limbs aren’t as long, the surfaces of their joints are bigger, their bones are bigger, their bones are generally stronger," Wood says. Then he points out their defining characteristic: thick, spherical skulls, protruding brows, and a very small forehead.

    "They probably needed about another 600 or 700 calories a day more than a modern human" to feed their hardier bodies, he explains — great in times of plenty but catastrophic in a famine. They were the gas-guzzling pickup truck of the hominids. We were the smart car.

    And the verdict on their attractiveness? Maybe, if you squint.

    Regardless, we must have seen something in them.

    "There are lots of ways of defining species," Wood tells me. "But there is one that I find particularly intuitive and practical, and it’s called the ‘specific mate recognition system.’ You mate with individuals who you are comfortable with, who you recognize. The ‘specific mate recognition systems’ of Neanderthals and humans must have overlapped, to the extent that we were willing to mate with a Neanderthal."

    But "did modern humans look over there and see a Neanderthal and say, ‘Hmm, not bad’?" Maybe, he says.

    But romantic love? "Frankly, I don’t know." Everything we know about human-Neanderthal sex


    We know for sure humans and Neanderthals had sex because of a Swedish scientist named Svante Pääbo, who "more or less invented the field of paleogenetics," Elizabeth Kolbert wrote in a terrific New Yorker article in 2011.

    When a mammal dies — human, Neanderthal, or woolly mammoth — microbes and the body’s own enzymes quickly start to break down the flesh. For scientists to salvage to genetic information from remains tens of thousands of years later, the remains have to be protected from heat, moisture, and contamination. And even then, "the DNA preserved in these bones is far from intact," Beth Shapiro, a biologist who specializes in extracting ancient DNA, tells me in an email.

    And the genomes the scientists find are never complete. They’re diced up into fragments. "Think of the DNA [extraction] as a zillion-piece puzzle that has not been assembled," Shapiro says. "All the pieces are in there, but they are in no particular order." What’s more, the puzzle set is often contaminated with genetic pieces from other organisms, like bacteria, and is easily contaminated by cells from the scientists’ own bodies. "I don’t think anyone seriously believed, at least in genetics ... that hybridization [mating] had happened"

    In 1997, Pääbo’s team became the first to extract Neanderthal DNA from a tiny slice of a 40,000-year-old humerus. That discovery kicked off the "Neanderthal genome project," an effort to decode the entirety of Neanderthals’ genetics from their fossils. In 2014, the team published an entire Neanderthal genome (sourced from the big toe of a female who lived 50,000 years ago in Siberia) in the journal Nature.

    As the scientists assembled the puzzle of the Neanderthal genome, they began to notice something incredibly odd: Specific genes looked oddly similar to human genes, more similar than they ought to have looked considering how long ago both species diverged from the same ancestor.

    "I don’t think anyone seriously believed, at least in genetics ... that hybridization had happened," Josh Akey, a genome scientist at the University of Washington who has co-authored papers with Pääbo, tells me. Yet that’s what the evidence was pointing toward. The genes looked so similar because some time after Neanderthals and humans diverged, they swapped some. Encyclopaedia Britannica/UIG Via Getty Image
    How different were the Neanderthals from us? "If you were to compare two random modern human chromosomes, you’d see a difference every thousand base pairs," Josh Akey, a genetics researcher at University of Washington, told me. With Neanderthals, you’d see a difference once every 750 base pairs.

    Using this insight, researchers began to speculate about when and where this mating happened. That is, they could begin to write about this chapter in human history.

    We all know DNA contains the instructions for life. But it is also a historical volume. Regularly, mutations in the genome pop up in a community in a particular corner of the world and then get passed on to the next generation. Many of these mutations are meaningless when it comes to our health and biology, but they function as a sort of serial number for the manufacturing of humans. You can look at a person’s smattering of mutations and determine what regions of the world his ancestors came from, and when.

    "Knowing how many of these mutations have accumulated in those segments that look Neanderthal-like, and based on the rate at which human mutations accumulate, we can say approximately how long ago that interbreeding must have happened," Adam Siepel, a genetics researcher at the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, says. "When you do that calculation, you come up with something on the order of 50,000 to 60,000 years ago, which fits pretty well with all of the other evidence." That’s when our ancestors were first venturing out of Africa. The genetics data seems almost trivial to this fact: "These are actual events that happened to actual people."
    What makes this evidence particularly compelling is that people of only sub-Saharan African ancestry don’t have Neanderthal genes. And it helps to confirm the finding: Neanderthals never lived in Africa.

    Siepel has also found evidence of an even earlier mating than those that took place around 50,000 years ago. In the fully sequenced Neanderthal genome published in 2014, he found some human genes dating back to 100,000 years ago. "Instead of finding Neanderthal segments in modern human genomes, we identified modern, human-like segments in one of the Neanderthal genome," he says.

    It goes to show these matings weren’t a one-time event in our history. (And it adds a wrinkle to the common story that humans left Africa around 50,000 to 60,000 years ago. Human DNA found its way into Neanderthals 100,000 years ago, so there must have been an earlier human incursion into Europe. Those humans, though, did not survive.)

    How many of these matings happened? "We tried to estimate this, actually, and it’s incredibly difficult," Akey says. The number would depend on the size of the human and Neanderthal populations, which are also difficult to estimate from the fossil record. "It could vary from a couple of hundred matings to thousands of matings, and we just don’t know where that number is right now," he says. What was the sex like?


    At this point, you’re probably wondering about the dirty details. Were humans and Neanderthals compatible physically?

    On this question, we do know one thing: Neanderthal penises were probably very similar to human penises.

    "You see, most primates, and indeed many mammals, have at least some spines on their penises," Hawks explains on his website. "‘Spine’ means more or less what you would expect: little projections that are covered in hard material, generally keratin, curving toward the base of the penis. These spines are sometimes called ‘horny papillae.’"

    Like humans, Neanderthals were missing the genes that codes for spiny penises.

    I also asked Philip Reno, a Penn State anthropologist who was part of the team that analyzed the Neanderthal genome for the spiny penis gene, if there’s anything we can learn about female Neanderthal sexual organs. "Unfortunately, I am not aware of much evidence on the soft tissue anatomy of [female] Neanderthals," he wrote me in an email.

    Human females are one of the few apes that don’t have an obvious outward display to show they are ovulating. Reno speculates Neanderthals probably were the same. "I don’t have any reason to doubt that Neanderthals would show the human-like pattern of concealed ovulation," he writes.

    Still, we do have the evidence that these couplings happened. Let’s talk about feelings. Were the couplings true love? Or was it abuse?

    SEBASTIAN WILLNOW/AFP/Getty Images A photographer takes pictures of a Neanderthal reconstruction, displayed in a show of the Prehistoric Museum in Halle, eastern Germany.

    I started to wonder about stories of forbidden interspecies love, or perhaps of an innocent Neanderthal child getting mixed up in a human tribe and ultimately being accepted as an equal. The genetics data seems almost trivial to this fact: "These are actual events that happened to actual people," Akey says.

    When modern humans first left Africa, we traveled to a Europe and Middle East that Neanderthals had colonized some thousands of years before.

    "Meeting up with Neanderthals when modern humans first expanded out of Africa must have been an incredible shock," Pat Shipman, an anthropologist and author who has written about the demise of Neanderthals, told me a few days after my museum visit. "They [modern humans] had never seen anything like themselves or not like themselves," she says.

    (Shipman stressed that because all this happened at least 40,000 years ago, the best she could do is speculate. That caveat is true for many of the conversations I held reporting this piece. The past teases us with a few clues, but in truth, we can never fully know what happened.)

    This was a time when you lived your whole life perhaps never knowing more than a few dozen people. Anywhere you traveled, you traveled on foot. The world must have seemed impossibly immense. "For a long time, the field of human evolution has imagined a fictional world where distinct human groups separated from one another and then remained distinct ... that’s just not true."

    Meeting a Neanderthal must have been an uncanny experience: like Star Trek characters encountering Vulcans for the first time. Here’s a species that looks remarkably like us, but it is not us.

    "If you think about what it’s like when you see a chimpanzee up close, you feel this immediate sense of kinship; you recognize a lot of its mannerisms and see things in its face. Neanderthals would have been 10 times as much like us as chimps," Siepel says. "There would have been a strong feeling of kinship, but there would have also been a strong sense of otherness."

    How would we have dealt with that uncanny otherness?

    Human history suggests there are two options: We would have empathized with them, or we would have met them with aggression.

    We don’t know much about Neanderthal behavior — or their capacity for emotional connection. But we do know a lot about human behavior, and in it a particularly disturbing historical pattern. When humans arrive in new lands with an eye for exploration, they usually end up cruelly conquering the foreign-looking people they encounter.

    "When we look at history and see what Australian aboriginals went through, what Native American people went through, what Easter Islanders went through, it’s hard to say that the Neanderthals would have been better off than these historical cases," Hawks says. "It’s probably the case that Neanderthals went through the Paleolithic version of the contacts we know about through history." (It could also be the case, Hawks says, that we just didn’t really notice Neanderthals were different from us.)

    Horrors like the Holocaust, the Rwandan genocide, and so many other atrocities show how easily humans can dehumanize humans. What would we do to an entirely different species easily mistaken as an inferior? In this country, the Supreme Court didn’t establish a right for interracial marriage until 1967.

    It’s also not hard to imagine that if Neanderthals were around today, we wouldn’t treat them very well. They’d activate all of our psychological systems that divide the world into us versus them.

    But there is a case to be made that we might have been compassionate toward them.

    It’s generally thought that humans have been essentially the same, in terms of biology, for around 200,000 years. We can project ourselves onto the people of the past because they are us. And that can give us hope to root for human-Neanderthal true love. "We all know people who have tragic love stories, and people who are very happy and contented their whole lives with one partner, and I imagine that we’re not looking at anything different in the past," Hawks says.

    (And while one theory of Neanderthal extinction is that they died by our hands, their population numbers were already in decline by the time we encountered them. So maybe we didn’t kill them. Some scientists say we absorbed them).

    One piece of scientific data that will help clear up whether these encounters were consensual or not would be the direction of the gene flow. That is, whether it was Neanderthal males impregnating human females, or human males impregnating Neanderthal females. The former would suggest that we were less conquering tyrants and more open-minded lovers. This is an open question in the science.

    "All we really know is that some offspring of humans and Neanderthals eventually got incorporated into human populations, because what we see is small fragments of genomes in human populations," Siepel says.

    Which is really quite profound, if you think about it: These hybrid individuals, stuck between two species and probably a little less healthy for the intermixing, were accepted into our human society enough to start families. To kick off the chain of moms and dads that has left its mark on so many of us. What it was like to be a human-Neanderthal hybrid


    What do we know about these first bi-species people?

    It’s likely that they were less healthy than their single-species peers, the geneticists I spoke to said. It’s possible not all hybrid offspring were fertile. And there’s evidence that the Neanderthal genes actually introduced disadvantageous traits into the population.

    In his work, Akey has determined that a full 20 percent of the Neanderthal genome can be found scattered in humans around the world today. But what’s more interesting is figuring out what Neanderthal genes didn’t get passed on. These would be Neanderthal traits that are not advantageous for survival.

    These Neanderthal-gene-less regions are involved in speech, language, and neural functions. "It is interesting to speculate that maybe hybrid individuals had deficits in speech or language or something like that," Akey says, and therefore those genes didn’t survive natural selection. "I wish I could paint a more romantic tale of candlelit dinners over mammoth steak, but it seems much more likely that the gene flow was mostly unintentional."
    Today, there’s some evidence that Neanderthal genes increase the risk for diseases like depression and blood clots. But the genes may also have provided some evolutionary advantages: Many of the surviving genes are found in regions that code for proteins in skin and hair.

    What’s also fascinating is that we didn’t just mate with Neanderthals. Genetics are finding evidence of gene flows between humans and the recently discovered Denisovans, and I’m told there’s emerging evidence for gene flows between us and a mystery species we haven’t even discovered yet.

    Yes, if two species of the genus Homo are similar enough, life will find a way. Nature This schematic shows the gene flows (i.e., mating) among species closely related to us: the Neanderthals, the Denisovans, and a yet-to-be-discovered species. You can see the Neanderthal "injection" of genes skipped humans of African descent.

    And that shakes up the way we’ve traditionally viewed how evolution works.

    "For a long time, the field of human evolution has imagined a fictional world where distinct human groupsseparated from one another and then remained distinct for long periods of time," Siepel tells me. "And we’re just finding out on multiple time scales that’s just not true."

    Evolution is a messy business. Species split at a certain point. But then, for thousands of years on, each lineage's decedents can be swapping spit and influencing the other’s gene pool. The branches of the tree of life split and then braid again together, before splitting apart again. Why I’m rooting for human-Neanderthal true love


    We don’t know the answer to the love question. But if we could fall in love with Neanderthals, a wholly separate species, wouldn’t that make modern debates over same-sex marriage or insignificant differences between people of different races just seem less important?

    NOTE from Lou: Just because there is evidence that Man and Neanderthals had sex, that does NOT justify homosexual sex in any way. It does not even justify sex between Man and Neanderthals. Man is sinful.

    Robert Sawyer is a science fiction author who won the Hugo Award — one of sci-fi’s highest honors — for his 2002 book Hominids, a story that imagines a parallel world where Neanderthals survived and we didn’t. In the book (which spawned a trilogy), a Neanderthal physicist opens up a rift between the worlds and falls in love with a human.

    Sawyer believes the actual history between humans and Neanderthals probably wasn’t consensual. "I wish I could paint a more romantic tale of candlelit dinners over mammoth steak, but it seems much more likely that the gene flow was mostly unintentional," he tells me.

    But he too can’t resist the hope that love could have existed between the groups.

    "I think absolutely they could fall in love," he says. "The emotion of love clearly exists in lesser primates: chimpanzees, Bonobos in particular ... and gorillas clearly show love for their children and love for their mates. Given that our common ancestors had that ability, our common ancestor of Neanderthals had that ability, then obviously Neanderthals had it as well as we had it."

    When I asked Akey, the University of Washington genome scientist, why he was interested in studying this, he recalled tucking his 4-year-old son into bed one night. The little one asked the question no parent is really ever prepared to answer: "Dad, where did I come from?"

    "You came from Mom and Dad."

    "But where did you come from?" the child replied.

    "Even at that age," Akey says, "we start wondering about all the things that had to happen for us to be where we're at today."

    Knowing where we come from teaches us what it means to be human. I hope we came from love.

    NOTE: I find this ending very sad that this man did not know to tell his son that God created Adam and Eve and we all came from Adam and Eve. The study of DNA has proven that we all came from ONE WOMAN and even science calls this woman "Eve".

    Think how amazing it is that God has kept DNA from neanderthals for thousands of years so that men could discover this.

    God could have condemned Cain to death for killing Able. But He did not. But God did separate Cain from the rest of mankind. I think that shows that we are NOT to mate with different species like neanderthals.

    But I see the possibility that Cain went to the land of Nod, who was a Neanderthal, and married one of his daughters. I would think since Cain had a spirit he would be far superior to the neanderthals and would then become their leader.

    What are your thoughts or questions about this ?
    Last edited by Lou Newton; September 14, 2016, 04:33 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      It came into my thought as I was reading this, if Cain mixed with Neanderthal...was it a shadow of the sons of God mixing with man?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Baruch View Post
        It came into my thought as I was reading this, if Cain mixed with Neanderthal...was it a shadow of the sons of God mixing with man?
        Ahh, good question Barry. I have never thought of that question, thanks for asking it. I do not know the answer to that question right now, but I do know that Satan was certainly involved in the murder of Abel. Satan always has deeper plans for any act of evil he gets man to carry out.

        Just as Satan inspired his demons to have sex with women before the flood to corrupt the human race, he might well have inspired Cain to murder Abel simply to get him into the land of Nod so he would mix with a race of non human beings like the Neanderthals.

        Looking at the remains of a neanderthal, I do not see how anyone could be tempted to have sex with one. BUT I do see how desperation could lead to just that. Cain had no one else to turn to.

        Also we know that men get so addicted to sex that they even have sex with animals that look nothing like a human ( even chickens). It takes a very sick person to do something like this. But we see how sick the world is getting today.

        We see why God made a law for His people that they were NOT to have sex with any animal. That would include Neanderthals if they still existed today.

        Back to your question - I see it as highly likely that was true, IF men had sex with Neanderthals.

        But I do not see anyone else that Cain could have mated with. BUT I have more ignorance than knowledge about anything, and especially this.

        I have seen this possibility for many years and have prayed about it for years. As time goes on, it seems to becoming more and more likely to be true.

        BUT I do not want to draw any conclusions before The Lord reveals the truth and makes it very clear.

        Comment


        • #5
          If it was even possible that men mated with a different species, the result would probably be the same as if a horse and mule mate; a sterile offspring to prevent the furthering of a race God did not create or intend to have in His plan. It is His plan and nobody or nothing can deviate His plan without His permission.
          So who did Cain marry? Well there are many other books to look into that are not bible books as far as authorized as bible canon. But never the less many people accept them as authentic or containing truths inspired from above. The trouble is that men added their own words and took away the purity of many writings forcing them out of the accepted bible canon.
          So there are Apocryphal accounts of Cain and the early life of the Adam and Eve family after the exile and I believe much of it to be acceptable as authentic. Each would have to judge for them selves as to it's inspirational value or whether or not it is inspired or not.
          I have read that both Cain and Abel had sisters born at the time closest to the age of each of the brothers. So Able had a homely sister and Cain had a beautiful sister. Adam and Eve wanted Cain to marry Abel's sister and they wanted Abel to marry Cain's beautiful sister and this enraged Cain as well since he loved his beautiful sister and hated Abel's homely sister. This edged Cain on to kill his brother and get him out of the way to have his sister for himself.
          As well as his jealousy of Abel's relationship with God. That was what first caused Cain to despise his brother.
          Anyone else read of this account and have a comment? Thanks and blessings ..... Steve

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
            If it was even possible that men mated with a different species, the result would probably be the same as if a horse and mule mate; a sterile offspring to prevent the furthering of a race God did not create or intend to have in His plan. It is His plan and nobody or nothing can deviate His plan without His permission.
            So who did Cain marry? Well there are many other books to look into that are not bible books as far as authorized as bible canon. But never the less many people accept them as authentic or containing truths inspired from above. The trouble is that men added their own words and took away the purity of many writings forcing them out of the accepted bible canon.
            So there are Apocryphal accounts of Cain and the early life of the Adam and Eve family after the exile and I believe much of it to be acceptable as authentic. Each would have to judge for them selves as to it's inspirational value or whether or not it is inspired or not.
            I have read that both Cain and Abel had sisters born at the time closest to the age of each of the brothers. So Able had a homely sister and Cain had a beautiful sister. Adam and Eve wanted Cain to marry Abel's sister and they wanted Abel to marry Cain's beautiful sister and this enraged Cain as well since he loved his beautiful sister and hated Abel's homely sister. This edged Cain on to kill his brother and get him out of the way to have his sister for himself.
            As well as his jealousy of Abel's relationship with God. That was what first caused Cain to despise his brother.
            Anyone else read of this account and have a comment? Thanks and blessings ..... Steve
            Thanks for your reply Steve.

            The first thing that came to mind is this: What do they mean by Abel's sister and Cain's sister. Both sisters would be both Cain and Abel's sister. They all had the same father and mother, Adam and Eve.

            Also in Genesis God says that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters AFTER Seth was born.
            . 4After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.

            God tells us of BOTH sons and daughters AFTER Seth, when less detail is give, why would God not tell us about Daughters before Seth when more detail is given.

            13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

            If there was no other beings that looked like men, why would Cain say whoever finds me will kill me.


            15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

            But here we have The Lord putting a mark on Cain so no one would kill him. - The Lord does not do useless things. So we know that there were others, but they were NOT created in the image of God like Adam. They had no spirit.


            I have never read any book of the Apocrypha that I thought agreed with the rest of scripture. To me they all seem to be from a different spirit than the rest of scripture.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Lou,
              Thanks for addressing my post and helping to expose any errors. Of course I didn't say I aligned myself with all of the apocryphal writings, but they didn't seem completely dead when I had read them. Especially the books of Esdras which is Ezra. But not to get off track, I didn't mean to derail the thread with secular junk, but I understood that addressing the girls as Cain's sister or Abel's sister only meant they were either twins or born near the same time as that male sibling that was referred to them. Of course they would all be brothers and sisters so I understand how confusing that sounded.

              Also, if there were other beings on the earth that were bipeds and similar to humans only without God's spirit; what happened to them all? There is no written history about them or from them other than anthropological findings. If a man mated with a female from the neanderthals, would there not be some form of communication between them? A relationship? A relationship with tribes from each species? Yet no recordings of any kind to point to that type of thing occurring?

              Please don't misunderstand me brother, I am not disagreeing with you only investigating how this could happen without one shred of evidence? I had never considered an alternate race of beings to live in the land of Nod and become family with Cain. Either way they were all destroyed in the flood.

              What has the Lord said to you about it brother? I am eager to find out and understand as this is one of the great mysteries in the bible.

              Could the other people that would kill Cain if they found him have been other children of Adam? Even future children not yet born but figured for by Cain as he plotted his existence after banishment?

              This is great stuff Lou. Thanks for opening up this can.

              What do you think the mark was to warn people not to kill him? Skin color?
              How would that warn someone?

              How did he survive the land of Nod with no tools or weapons to hunt with?

              The questions could go on and on. Thanks again Lou ..... Steve


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
                Hi Lou,

                Steve, my answers in bold:

                Thanks for addressing my post and helping to expose any errors. Of course I didn't say I aligned myself with all of the apocryphal writings, but they didn't seem completely dead when I had read them. Especially the books of Esdras which is Ezra. But not to get off track, I didn't mean to derail the thread with secular junk, but I understood that addressing the girls as Cain's sister or Abel's sister only meant they were either twins or born near the same time as that male sibling that was referred to them. Of course they would all be brothers and sisters so I understand how confusing that sounded.

                Steve could you send me the name of the book you read this in about their sisters. I would like to read that account.



                Also, if there were other beings on the earth that were bipeds and similar to humans only without God's spirit; what happened to them all? There is no written history about them or from them other than anthropological findings. If a man mated with a female from the neanderthals, would there not be some form of communication between them? A relationship? A relationship with tribes from each species? Yet no recordings of any kind to point to that type of thing occurring?

                There is a lot of physical evidence that these beings existed. Much was presented in the article but all of the photos did not copy. Click on the link and you can see some of the evidence. There are thousands of fossils that God preserved for us to see. We know dinos existed and also these beings that walked upright but were not men. They were animals and some had very small brains compared to humans but large brains compared to other animals. This evidence was not preserved by scientist, they did not exist yet, but it was preserved by The Lord for us to see. Dinos are not mentioned in the Bible, but they definitely existed. I have seen thousands with my own eyes. Of course these hominids existed long after dinos were gone.

                Please don't misunderstand me brother, I am not disagreeing with you only investigating how this could happen without one shred of evidence? I had never considered an alternate race of beings to live in the land of Nod and become family with Cain. Either way they were all destroyed in the flood.

                Yes, they were all destroyed in the flood. This may be one of the reasons for the flood. Men mixing with these neanderthals and then demons.

                What has the Lord said to you about it brother? I am eager to find out and understand as this is one of the great mysteries in the bible.

                I have more questions than answers about this.

                Could the other people that would kill Cain if they found him have been other children of Adam? Even future children not yet born but figured for by Cain as he plotted his existence after banishment?

                I don't think that make sense. I do not think Cain would fear`those that did not even exist. But even stronger evidence is the fact that God says that Cain went to the land of Nod and built a city. Who did he build this city with and for ?

                This is great stuff Lou. Thanks for opening up this can.

                What do you think the mark was to warn people not to kill him? Skin color?

                Good question, I have wondered about the mark every time I read that passage.

                How would that warn someone?

                Another good question I have often wondered about.

                How did he survive the land of Nod with no tools or weapons to hunt with?

                I would think he took his tools and weapons with him. Also I think the first weapons could have been tools. Cain might have killed Abel with a hoe or other farm tool. Abel would not suspect violence when Cain had no weapon.

                The questions could go on and on. Thanks again Lou ..... Steve

                Thanks Steve, my replies are in bold.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hey Lou,

                  Make sure you let us know if you are going to Brant's or not so we can hold you up in prayer.

                  I will look into the book but I think it is called: "The Book of the Garden of Eden"

                  I will find it and send it along directly. Thanks for your kind response to my post. I also have many more questions than answers.

                  It is a very interesting mystery though, because we know that God is involved and it is marvelous.

                  I will look into the different other books I have, but nowhere has anyone every speculated about a mixed race due to Cain.
                  Of course a city would need inhabitants so there must have been numerous people in the land.

                  But the thing that perplexes me is the cross species mating and it usually does not produce fertile offspring.

                  Remember that Lamech was a grandchild of Cain's and Lamech had two wives and he was a blind man that boasted of killing a man and wounding another man for insignificant crimes against him.

                  The account of this is written in alternate scriptures as well and the account that I have read accuses Lamech of murdering his own grandfather Cain by mistake and then attacking his nephew that witnessed the murder. I don't know if that is the truth, but it does go along with the type of person Lamech is portrayed as.

                  I will post as soon as I have more references for you. Blessings ..... Steve

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
                    Hey Lou,

                    Make sure you let us know if you are going to Brant's or not so we can hold you up in prayer.

                    I will look into the book but I think it is called: "The Book of the Garden of Eden"

                    I will find it and send it along directly. Thanks for your kind response to my post. I also have many more questions than answers.

                    It is a very interesting mystery though, because we know that God is involved and it is marvelous.

                    I will look into the different other books I have, but nowhere has anyone every speculated about a mixed race due to Cain.
                    Of course a city would need inhabitants so there must have been numerous people in the land.

                    But the thing that perplexes me is the cross species mating and it usually does not produce fertile offspring.

                    Remember that Lamech was a grandchild of Cain's and Lamech had two wives and he was a blind man that boasted of killing a man and wounding another man for insignificant crimes against him.

                    The account of this is written in alternate scriptures as well and the account that I have read accuses Lamech of murdering his own grandfather Cain by mistake and then attacking his nephew that witnessed the murder. I don't know if that is the truth, but it does go along with the type of person Lamech is portrayed as.

                    I will post as soon as I have more references for you. Blessings ..... Steve
                    Amen we have far more questions about this than answers:

                    BUT we do know this:

                    1 - It sure seems that God wrote Genesis but there are some words that are the words of mere men ( those words are true accounts of what men said, but are from men), BUT the following words seem to be from God and from Cain:


                    10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

                    13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear.14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

                    15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

                    17Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.

                    So we know that Cain was building a city and this was far before any of the Lord's people built cities. - How can one build a city without people to help and people to live in it.

                    Cain is the oldest human on the planet except for Adam and Eve. ( that would sure seem to be true) Seth is the next one born to Adam and Eve and he is still unborn when Cain kills Abel.

                    So I see no real possibility that these beings came from Adam and Eve.

                    If there were no other beings that looked like men, it sure seems God would have answered Cain, "not so, there are no others that are born yet". But God did not answer this way. But even more put a mark on Cain so no one would kill him.

                    The Lord is not a mere man and does not speak like a mere man. The Lord speaks with perfection. The Lord is not trying to confuse us.

                    The ONLY possibility I can see at this time is that there were other creatures on the earth that looked like men.

                    I only see one other possibility than the one I already mentioned that Cain mated with Neanderthals:

                    That possibility would be rejected with much zeal by a lot of Christians. BUT it seems to line up with the scriptures if not popular church doctrines.

                    One could argue that since God told the earth to produce plants and then animals:

                    11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

                    24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

                    NOTICE that God says " let the land produce living creatures " -

                    God uses the word CREATE in three different places in Genesis 1

                    1st - when God CREATES the natural universe and CREATES all matter and energy and time - or space-time

                    2nd - when God CREATES the large animals -

                    20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

                    Here God uses the term LET the water teem - and also God CREATED.

                    I think God uses the word CREATE when He creates something out of nothing OR creates something in the natural world from the spiritual.

                    It also seems that God uses the terms "Let the be" OR "God made" when God causes something to form from something He already CREATED.

                    For instance : God formed the earth from the matter He created in the beginning. The matter was created in the beginning but the earth was formed later from that matter.

                    Now we have the earth producing plants from the soil, water and sunlight that God had created and formed earlier.

                    Then the sea produced animals from the earth, water and sunlight that God created earlier.

                    NONE OF THESE THINGS COULD TAKE PLACE WITHOUT A MIRACLE FROM GOD.

                    We have many other planets in our solar`system with no life. It took a miracle from God to have life form on this earth.

                    God created and then God guided the creation to form other things by His laws that He created. BUT even these laws needed His guidance to form life for all of the universe had His laws, but life only formed here.

                    BUT God uses BOTH "let the let the land produce living creatures" AND "So God created the great creatures of the sea"

                    So it seems that God said let the earth produce animals and then He CREATED a SOUL for the animals that now have a soul.

                    It sure seems that some animals do not have a soul ( like bacteria) and others do have a soul ( like dogs) So it took a second act of creation to create the soul that did not exist before this creation event.


                    So if we look further here is the 3rd place God uses the word CREATE:

                    26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

                    27 So God created mankind in his own image,
                    in the image of God he created them;
                    male and female he created them.

                    So here God also uses BOTH the word MAKE and CREATE.

                    WHY ?

                    God already created the realm of the soul and so that did not need to be created again.

                    But God needed to CREATE a SPIRIT for man ? Because man would have a spirit like God so man would be created in God's image.

                    BUT why also use the word MAKE then ?

                    I have this question - did God make creatures that looked like men with body and soul, but they were mere animals that did not have a spirit.

                    Did God take one of these creatures and breath the breath of life ( The Spirit) into him and then call him Adam.

                    That would mean that Adam would be the first man, AND also be the only man. He would be the only creature on the earth with a spirit like God.

                    BUT there would be countless others that looked like Adam on the earth before Adam was MADE and CREATED into a man.

                    At this time this is the only possibility that I can see that makes all of the scriptures true.

                    Just because it is the only possibility that I can think of does not make it the only possibility.

                    This would mean that Cain did not have sex with Neanderthals, but could have mated with creatures that looked like men, but were NOT men because they were not created in God's image by God breathing the breath of life into them.

                    WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ?
                    Last edited by Lou Newton; September 16, 2016, 03:16 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Hi Lou,

                      I don't know brother, I am having a tough time accepting spiritless beings roaming around while God was making a new creature in His image. The scriptures say that the earth was void and without form right before He created man and the rest of the living creatures. No?

                      I believe there were other beings before man. I believe Lucifer had a following of these beings. He may have had a type of kingdom on earth and lost it when he rebelled. But I don't think they were men, more like the neanderthals than men. But I could be totally wrong.

                      I am looking for more information and documentation and will share it if and when I find something worthwhile.

                      But you may be right Lou. There is so much we don't know. Blessings ..... Steve

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Steve Hollander View Post
                        Hi Lou,

                        I don't know brother, I am having a tough time accepting spiritless beings roaming around while God was making a new creature in His image. The scriptures say that the earth was void and without form right before He created man and the rest of the living creatures. No?

                        I believe there were other beings before man. I believe Lucifer had a following of these beings. He may have had a type of kingdom on earth and lost it when he rebelled. But I don't think they were men, more like the neanderthals than men. But I could be totally wrong.

                        I am looking for more information and documentation and will share it if and when I find something worthwhile.

                        But you may be right Lou. There is so much we don't know. Blessings ..... Steve
                        Thanks for the reply Steve.

                        Certainly animals were roaming around before God created Adam - right ?

                        These animals did not have a spirit - right ?

                        So we know that there were spiritless beings roaming around before God created Adam - right ?

                        You wrote:
                        The scriptures say that the earth was void and without form right before He created man and the rest of the living creatures. No?
                        No the scriptures do not say that - they say that the earth was void right BEFORE God said let there be light in verse 2.
                        Genesis 1New International Version (NIV)

                        The Beginning

                        1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

                        3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

                        But then God began FILLING the earth with light, atmosphere to breath, dry land, plants, animals and then man.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Steve wrote: Please don't misunderstand me brother, I am not disagreeing with you only investigating how this could happen without one shred of evidence? I had never considered an alternate race of beings to live in the land of Nod and become family with Cain. Either way they were all destroyed in the flood.

                          Lou wrote :Yes, they were all destroyed in the flood. This may be one of the reasons for the flood. Men mixing with these neanderthals and then demons.
                          I have to repent of my answer above.

                          We do know that all the male descendants of Cain were destroyed in the flood.

                          BUT we do not know that all of the female descendants were destroyed in the flood.

                          Could not any one of the wives of Noah and his sons been descendants of Cain.

                          OR any of the wives of the ancestors of Noah could have been descendants of Cain.

                          But I tend to reject that the mark put on Cain was dark skin. That was a doctrine of the Mormon church and many Southern baptist churches to justify slavery.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm enjoying the adventure. Thanks for your comments.

                            The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) has a very interesting commentary on Cain and the Cain narrative.

                            In here are mentioned the main point: the unsubdued lusts leading to sin, murder, and blood guilt. Many of the questions are posed that the narrative begs (which I think were mostly hit on by Lou) when we try to understand the narrative literally, as Lou and Steve have also revealed. Very intriguing is a critical theory that considers Cain and the family lines descended from Adam as tribes rather than individuals; perhaps there was a patriarchy establishing each tribe, and some blending of the characters of tribal history and the patriarch. I don't think the tribal theory necessarily precludes the possibility of man (adam) mixing with Neanderthal, maybe even loosely supports it.

                            You may appreciate many of the things written herein. It's interesting to me to know that others have explored these questions, and took them in directions I could not, and what they have noted in their explorations.

                            ISBE Online: http://www.internationalstandardbible.com/C/cain.html
                            ISBE is also available in e-Sword.

                            The mark of Cain has intrigued the best of minds, many of whom seem to have been very blessed with God's wisdom and knowledge. It seems none of them were given the revelation, or if they were perhaps they could not divulge it without God's allowance.

                            I was thinking a soulish mark. Something that would stand out, such as described in ISBE: unsubdued temper. If this were visible in Cain's countenance, and in his seed, this could be a sign that killing Cain would bring terrible retribution, in other words a ferocious and vengeful disposition (sevenfold); a hardening which seems guaranteed if God should withhold His grace. I'm not convinced of this, though, after having looked into the Hebrew word used for "mark": translated variously as sign, token, mark, miracle, ensign: and the Greek (Septuagint) translated as sign, also meaning token, wonder, miracle, an indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally.

                            Perhaps it truly was a supernatural manifestation of some kind placed upon Cain and/or his children.
                            Last edited by Baruch; September 17, 2016, 12:31 AM.

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